Oooh

ohhh?

wow!

YaY

okay

I have questions about that first feature. When you launched it a couple of days ago, it came with this warning that NSFW plurks have to have the flag or it's a ToS violation now, but last I heard this wasn't accessible through mobile.

Furthermore, given the life-or-death level of emphasis you put on its usage, you've buried it a little much even in Plurk's regular interface. Do you mean to address this feature's accessibility?

Second question: it's possible for a discussion in a plurk's replies to take on NSFW qualities later on, but unless one has plurk coins one can't add the NSFW flag to a plurk after the fact. Would that be a ToS violation too?

one expected to silence such discussion in replies?

Yes, the TOS violation stuff is...weird and concerning.

Also I know people who would prefer to be able to just set their page itself to the 18+ tag and wash their hands of the individual thing.

Third question: Your timing concerning the addition of this feature is troubling in light of recent controversy about how women are treated in the US, and the inherently NSFW nature of that controversy. Please tell me your intent here isn't to silence women...

Including a warning of potential ToS violations in that popup from a couple of days ago announcing the feature screams chilling effect, and all.

That's everything I have to ask, anyway.

In regards to SOME of the concerns, Pteryx: iF you put NSFW in the plurk heading, it'll automatically tag it 18+

I can't answer all of them, not working for the company, but that helps a lot.

dragon8writers: But does that work if you edit it into a plurk that already exists?

Pteryx: No, you have to go into the plurk and adjust the settings manually if it's not there at the start....

dragon8writers: Mm, and last I knew privacy settings (which 18+ is lumped in with) were only editable if you have coins... If that's changed, that's one thing, but...?

Pteryx: I used the privacy settings in a browser window to set a post to 18+, and I don't have coins, but that was when I posted, don't know about editing an existing post.

(Plus how to edit privacy settings in an existing plurk might not be readily apparent enough in the context of "use this flag as appropriate on penalty of permanent exile".)

The Tos violation thing is probably an excuse for them to ban porn/spam bots. If your plurk is already private, it doesn't really matter unless someone on your timeline decides to report you for some reason.

Yeah.................... you have to link to the plurk directly, in browser, and then edit it.

I don't think companies need to create NSFW tags in conjunction with TOS warnings in order to be able to remove bots. >.>

as an fyi, right now the nsfw tag isn't showing up on the official mobile app even if it shows up on the site. I think that will be solved once they push out an update.

afaik editing it in after the fact by opening the plurk up in its own window, you should be able to edit it. even before coins were introduced you could change the settings on a plurk this way:

the last time i didn't have coins i checked and you cna no longer edit things through the link

it's only available to people with coins

that's bullshit. why would they take a feature that's been there away from users, especially one as important as that?

i don't know why they did it other than the cash grab idea /shrug

but it absolutely said very clearly that it was only something people with coins could do

hmmm. I just went and looked and yes, it does say privacy settings. but idk if that includes this new NSFW tag? since if it's a TOS violation to not have it marked, it would be quite unfair to penalize people whose plurks turn NSFW...

that's waht i'm concerned about

just had a friend check and free users can change that setting!

oh good

seriously.

The "who can see" part is coin-only, but the stuff in the right-hand side is editable by all.

excellent. I didn't think to ask my friend about the comment/replurkable settings.

I'm concerned as to what is nsfw as well tbh. I work in a hospital, I do friends locked posts at work to chatter about my shift. It can get

Gory.

Mm, that is another concern. Attempts to censor NSFW content have hurt medical discussion on the Net before. (See the time back in the 90s when AOL trying to censor the word "breast" shut down discussions of breast cancer.)

FenrigealOdinson: Yes, you have to mark it. But they're saying if you post something that is deemed, somehow we do not know, to be "18+" without marking it as such, that it is a violation of TOS.

y'all need to calm down, i really don't think all this fearmongering is going to help anything lmao

yellowpaintt: superorbital: People tending to call this kind of discussion "dramatic" and "fearmongering" is exactly the kind of thing that makes people more afraid of being silenced.

except fearmongering and drama is exactly what this is

I was calm until the thinly-veiled "shut up"s came out.

there's a wild difference in tone between raising the very reasonable question if whether discussion of sexual assault, especially considering the current climate, should fall under that tag and making transparent accusations that the plurk team are trying to chase that sort of discussion off the site and silence women

there's no 'censorship' of nsfw content here, it's just finally giving people the option to filter out adult content from their plurklist

which is important because the minimum age to join the site is thirteen which means! we potentially have underage kids on here!

and we absolutely need a better way to better mark and filter content they shouldn't be seeing

superorbital: Except that when it was first announced via popup, it said not using it as appropriate was a ToS violation. So what's "appropriate"? How will it be enforced? If someone reports a plurk without the flag, what kind of content will result in a ban?

the intent here to just hide discussion of adult materials and such, or could someone report a woman's accusations of misconduct and get her banned for her "impudence"?

and there again is the fearmongering and baseless accusations of targeted malicious intent

i seriously don't understand how you saw "hey tag your porn or we'll have to slap your wrist" and got this entire web of malice from it

FenrigealOdinson: bad timing, sorry! i was responding to DPS, not you

I'm not saying they necessarily mean harm. I am saying it's unclear whether they do or not, the timing is uncomfortable, and that even if they do mean well a poorly-considered policy could be harmful anyway.

tbf since this is a Taiwanese site I doubt the current American social climate was at the forefront of their minds.

So now asking questions about how something is supposed to work, is baseless accusations of malicious intent, drama, and fear-mongering?

melbymonkey: it is when you're making actual baseless accusations, yes

Um no. Asking questions about how something is intended to work, when zero information was given, and warnings about TOS violations was given, is not accusations.

a question: "Hey, what's the exact nature of TOS violations and what are the consequences? It's a little unclear!"

a thinly-veiled accusation: Your timing concerning the addition of this feature is troubling in light of recent controversy about how women are treated in the US, and the inherently NSFW nature of that controversy. Please tell me your intent here isn't to silence women...

Oh ffs. I can't even with that. Peace out, homes.

good

Can I get the option to just mark my whole timeline as NSFW?

if you do then anyone who opts out of adult only posts isn't gonna see anything on your timeline though

it's not like it's locked when you're logged out and unlocked logged in above a certain age

emeralddarkness: I'm fine with that

yeah i would rather make my whole plurk locked down than deal with micromanaging to this level

especially if a plurk veers offtopic while you're afk and you might get dinged if you don't jump on that fast enough

like it'd be a nifty thing to just give us the functionality + the ability to filter out adult content but the TOS warnings makes the whole thing a bit more stressful than strictly necessary

a lot of us would rather just wash our hands of the whole thing and mark the whole plurk adult-only like you can with your journals on dw

true, my thing though is that in that case the tag itself becomes useless again, because things marked nsfw might be totally okay, and anyone on your flist who doesn't want to opt into adult only all of a sudden will never see plurks again

(i don't even post porn etc but sometimes i might make a dirty joke in a plurk if it goes in that direction lmao)

either way there's problems

Just typing nsfw into the top plurk will do it automatically! It's no different than when you edit and put [ nsfw ] in the heading. And if your timeline is private, it doesn't really matter either way.

emeralddarkness: i mean that's their decision tho lmao. people already courtesy mark their shit as nsfw all the time

i'm also concerned with what's gonna be considered Adult too lol. like back in the neopets days you could get banned for just saying fuck

not saying that's gonna happen here, but the lack of clarity combined with the tos warning does make me a lil antsy

my TL is private, but I still just want to mark my whole TL adult-only so I don't need to type it every time and even risk someone on my friends list flipping out over an untagged nsfw

emeralddarkness: sorry i phrased that a little more flippantly than i meant, but basically my position is like. if someone is uncomfortable with the possibility seeing adult content then...it's kind of their responsibility to decide whether or not it's worth following someone who might have a lot of it?

turn off adult filter to view this content

turn off adult filter to view this content

turn off adult filter to view this content

turn off adult filter to view this content

turn off adult filter to view this content

on mobile I'm getting this right now

I'm seeing that on desktop. And I don't have the adult filter on.

on my computer I'm getting that too? I don't have the adult filter on though, saw a friend's tagged plurk the other day just fine

does it block content if the op has the adult filter on, then?

they are trolling, that's an emote 18+ label

oh, lovely

Lmao yeah I was about to say I found it out

...it's not going accusations or being dramatic when asking what counts as NSFW. Is liberal use of the weird fuck enough? It discussion of

A penis or prostate or related parts NSFW even in a medical context? Drug use/abuse/over dose? Ect.

I'm asking because hey, I talk about these things and they are safe for work but could someone report it as NSFW? Sure. So what's the

Guidelines for determining a TOS violation? Yes I am aware the idea is to smack down pornbots. But misuse happens.

komikbookgeek: the guidelines is common sense hey, you can write up to 360 characters now

text vs pictures was one of my questions too. is talking alone a thing or was this meant for adult pictures?

I mean, considering how many RPers on plurk lived through the Strike Through, I'd say it's a valid concern to bring up

misuse definitely can happen, which is why so many people have every right (imho!) to be suspicious, when there's no real transparency. If you're going to wave a banstick as a threat, you better make it clear what sort of thing is crossing that line, and what isn't. that some people think others are making too big a deal of it only tells me that those

I just found my Strike Through icons last week ironically enough

people haven't had to deal with people claiming the rules are common sense, but then applying it in an over-broad way.

which... good for them, for being so lucky? but many of us haven't been. and so, we're wary.

Could the existence of the NSFW filter, and how to use it when first making a plurk - and how to add it to a plurk that gains NSFW content - be added to the FAQ?

More detail on what content requires the filter, clearly listed out, would also be very helpful.

that would be lovely. also a good definition of-- yes.

I'd like to hear "by 'NSFW', we mean porn." or something to that effect....

^ agreed, yes please!

at least that, we can all agree would be a reasonable definition? and pretty easy to follow?

but the question is still what the Plurk staff wants to include, not what we think is "common sense".

yeah, I'd rather not assume what the common sense is for the people making the decisions on what constitutes nsfw or not.

Mm, and the Plurk staff still hasn't spoken up again in all this.

I've dealt with enough variety of people to know that what's common sense to me may not be common to them

^This exactly

"common" sense is just something you don't remember learning, really

^exactly this.

Knowing what plurk staff specifically wants the definition to mean allows users to follow the TOS without having to guess.

it constantly surprises me, what sorts of things I take for granted, that others apparently never even thought of. people are even somehow still divided on whether a mother breastfeeding her baby is considered "indecent" or not. (apparently, because omg boobies or something.)

Exactly

I think you guys might have better luck using plurk's official contact instead? If someone asks there, they might get a more concrete response. The TOS itself is actually pretty vague on the matter, which is probably a little intentional

Ok I don't mind the tag but.... How do you 'turn off' the adult content filter? I have the option not to show it, but it's not turned on... and it's still blocking content? Um wtf?

PenandInk: if you mean a couple replies further up: it isn't blocked. they're just trolling.

/facepalm
Nightsail: Thanks.

plurk staff probably assumed everyone would understand what this meant and didn't need their hands held

Plurks with adult content (R18/NC17/NSFW/Pornography) this is on the page where you can elect to not see NSFW plurks, that's what they consider part of the filter

but no i'm sure this is all a conspiracy by a taiwanese company to silence its considerably smaller english base

which is well and good, but one person's definition of "pornography" is not necessarily another's.

they don't mean stuff that a random plurk could like, veer into unless your conversations are just that wild. they're talking about literally pornography

also half the plurk staff was probably asleep for most of this AND yeah using the official plurk contact is probably where you'd want to go

and I'm not feeling quite eloquent enough to explain myself, sorry.

it's not even ten am in taiwan right now, like

See, I'm not going to assume my American definition of "nc17" is the same as that of a Taiwanese company. That's exactly why we're asking for details.

they probably have other things to do right when they get to work

that's all well and good, but this plurk has been up for 12 hours now

which is probably why they also listed the R18 label, so you have multiple references

also dude you literally said I'd like to hear "by 'NSFW', we mean porn." the thing says porn.

oh, you're right, twelve hours is a super duper long time, my bad, people aren't allowed to sleep or go home and have lives after work after all

Not to mention, I'm pretty sure certain currently high-profile types of accusations would qualify as "NC-17". That's what I'd like a clearer line on.

i'm pretty sure if those allegations qualified as NC-17 they wouldn't be being reported on the nightly news at 5, but what do i know

R18 has different meanings depending on country and medium

again, "common sense" is not universal. in some places, holding hands in public is against the law/ordinances. people could be fined or thrown in jail for it. is that a silly example? sure. there's a diff between "hard porn" (excuse me, I left out that qualifying adjective) and cute fluff, at least in the USA. Plurk is not USian.

which is why it says: Plurks with adult content (R18/NC17/NSFW/Pornography)

and some people consider sex ed materials to be pornographic.

again, this differs by culture and region.

I'm not actually seeing where in the TOS it says you can be banned over this though (it does say they can ban you at any time for any reason without notice so I think if they really wanted to shut someone up they wouldn't need an extra rule for that)

it also says this plurk follows the laws of the Caymen islands so I guess those would be the regulations you want v(._.)v

I think the ban mention was in the pop-up when they announced the feature?

I didn't read it so I can't say

also by "this plurk" I meant "this website" lol

the tos talks about removing "Content that we consider in our sole discretion being unlawful, offensive, threatening, obscene or otherwise objectionable or violate any party's intellectual property"

for reference

I think it's always said that though

yeah, unless they plan to update it after this feature

but this is what we have as far as rules currently

imagine being so invested in projecting your self-righteousness all over the internet that you invent a full-on conspiracy theory from whole cloth

amazing

again: those that think wanting clarity is equatable with conspiracy theories probably haven't dealt with people in positions of power being arbitrary.

yeah plurk is a regular dictatorship

Calm down, stop screaming vine

we're not saying it is. we're saying they waved a ban-stick in mentioning a new thing they're putting out, and would like to know just where they're drawing a line for using it.

you don't have to be a dictator to screw up royally

just look at LJ, right? lol.

-- also what sexual harassment claims have even been promoted using plurk like why is this even an issue

yeah, and when LJ got bad we left

if this site gets bad we'll leave

such is the way of the internet

the problem is, I'm unaware of any Plurk-analog that's ready and waiting.

most of my game uses discord for chatting

some of them more than plurk

discord

it's honestly what most of us use rn anyway

good for you. I don't, and as far as I know, most of the other people I talk to don't either. Discord =/= Plurk.

well then sucks to suck

well, golly, buddy! save some straws and pearls for the rest of us to grasp and clutch at!

otoh, LJ and DW are quite similar in function. they even had migration tools. /shrug

enjoy living under our benevolent plurk overlords

you probably didn't use DW much before the migration

at least only one person I knew at the time did

I did, in fact. thanks for assuming.

strikethrough gave some people such persecution complexes

OK, trekfaerie is officially a troll.

girl for real

lmfaoooo

i'm not a troll y'all are just really getting fussed about nothing

or incredibly ignorant

so, what horse do you guys have in this race, that "we'd like the policy to be made a lot clearer than this; some users have concerns due to past screwups elsewhere" needs to be argued against?

I'd just like people to chill and not accuse plurk of some conspiracy against sexual harassment claims

my horse is called watching you guys run around like chickens with your heads cut off is annoying as fuck why did someone replurk this

it's really long

but i think it'll pull ahead

then get the fuck out and mute it. problem solved.

no

Guys chill. Just gimme a few. I'll translate the chinese official plurk's response as best I can. (i'm at work so this may take a while)

dude, awesome. thank you.

coulsonlives:

lol

whoever that was blocked me

Amazing how much less toxic this plurk became after I blocked a couple of people.

Of course, now Nightsail looks a little silly arguing with non-existent people but hey. Can't have everything. XD

I know, it totally does...

so was the message with the mentions of the rating on the desktop version? I don't think I saw it, but I've been on mobile

yeah, it popped up for me when I refreshed the page here on my lappy, at one point... wish I'd screencapped it or something, though.

rag_doll_witch: The mentions of the rating are in the timeline settings, on the checkbox for filtering out everything with the flag. The mention of ToS violation for not using the flag was on the popup that showed up on the desktop version.

it's not active on mobile yet. (also the official plurk rules is longer than I thought. working on it tho!)

honestly i think we could probably benefit from some clarity on how these rules are going to be enforced but suggesting that a taiwanese company instituted a rule in order to silence sexual abuse victims in response to a bunch of american controversies is pretty profoundly stupid

Nightsail: I can try and cap it when I get on my laptop, if you want

that having been said, in the mean time anyone who is worried should make their plurk private at least until the policy is clarified. TOS violations are addressed when they're reported, privatizing your plurk should prevent reports from happening

translation of plurk's official response regarding...
original links are here and here

rag_doll_witch: would be nice, honestly! it ended up dismissed sooner than I'd have liked. (my touchpad gets finicky at times, whoops.)

coulsonlives: awesome, thank you

Ooh, I see a direct answer to one of my questions already.

keeps reading.

definitely awesome, thank you!

coulsonlives: thanks!

coulsonlives: ty!

oh cool, i really like the gambling rule

i'm glad that's being given more attention lately

coulsonlives thanks for doing this!

tbh when the initial popup thing about the tos violation came up it didn't have even the clarifications about R18/NC-17/pornography

which makes me feel a lot better already

coulsonlives: oh! thank you

yeah, this is a ton better context. imho, Plurk should've started with introducing it with this sort of explanation.

guys there's a new official plurk regarding what's been addressed here

in case anyone only saw this due to replurks and thus hasn't caught sight of it yet

yup, it's right here!

NECROFANTASIA: get your sensible global perspective the fuck outta here.

Oh look, while I was away there came several more idiots than the first one to throw on my block list.
coulsonlives: Thank you, that's a lot more clarity than their official response has, too.

thank you, plurk! this is some good stuff.

ivanpito: common sense isn't common and again, what is nsfw varies

coulsonlives: thank you. Still doesn't make me not concerned but does offer some guidelines

I never saw the pop up either, as an aside. Which was and is a large part of the concern and why this was so suspect.

and in come the bots

konamicode

it's not thanksgiving anymore, but i'm thankful for plurks like these because i love preemptively blocking people who seem like toxic tittybabies who freak out over nothing.

anyone else get a random Plurk coin from the site?

you'll notice that no one is freaking out now that the clarification that was asked for has been given, only, I guess you won't since you blocked them

That's okay, it lets us reasonable folks know who to block, too.

if a blocked plurker continues to speak, do they really make a sound? what is the sound of one hand clapping?

nobody is entitled to anybody else's attention and i can block anybody who i deem too toxic to want to possibly deal with. if they think i'm an asshole, its win/win because they don't have to deal with me either.

and yet, here you are trying to draw attention to yourself and your half-formed facts, you could have just blocked and moved on, you could have just muted the plurk, and yet here we are

"half-formed facts" lol, okay then.

NSFW

does it really working? nothing seen in web mobile

kangtuji: It doesn't work like that.

If you put "NSFW" in the original plurk (NOT in a reply) then it'll auto-tag it as 18+. Try it by posting a new plurk with "NSFW" in the title. They're working on making it display in mobile, but it currently displays this tag as intended (I think!) on the desktop-view timeline page.

The mobile app has other issues that need to be addressed. Like how it crashes every time one tries to use their gifs.

BananaBanshee: uh how do you mean "use their GIFs"

I use mobile plurk 90% of the time and I very rarely experience crashes so I'm curious :|a

When I try to use my own emotes it crashes my app. I usually am able to use the first one or 2 lines but when I try to scroll down it crashes.

I've tried uninstalling and reinstalling the app, my iOS is up to date, I've even tried using another, non official Plurk app (it works but the rest of the app is awful)

I've not seen anyone else with those problems, and several of my friends are iOS users. Have you submitted help reports about it?

that's really weird - I use my own emotes all the time and I've never had a similar problem

Great. New features. Now when do you do something about all of the spam bots?

Maybe spambots should be NSFW-ed. Cause often it's not really a good idea to pop them open at work

hi

Very Good

hii friends

hi

hi

kkkkk