| Ἀριστοτέλης | says | Mass at St. Patrick's was interesting... |
| Snupnjake | says | how so? |
| Ἀριστοτέλης | is | thinking of blogging the music list...but closing the comment box. |
| Ἀριστοτέλης | was | distracted enough, let's just put it that way. I'm weak. |
| cuaguy | says | could not have been as bad as the pilgramage... |
| Ἀριστοτέλης | says | there's also the issue of instrumentation... |
| Ἀριστοτέλης | is | not faulting the efforts of the musicians, to be clear. |
| cuaguy | says | I heard Massive Cremation at the BNSIC. I thought that I escaped that when I came down here. Also, Celtic Alleluia, Shutte and Hass |
| cuaguy | says | and I could go on. At least they used the organ |
| MakeMeaSpark | says | OH NO |
| MakeMeaSpark | says | you are not going to believe what we are singing sunday at Lifeteen mass! |
| MakeMeaSpark | says | Aristotle you have to guess! |
| Snupnjake | says | do tell |
| Snupnjake | says | I revel in your horror |
| cuaguy | says | CD- have you head it referred to that way? Apparantly, not everyone calls it Massive Cremation |
| MakeMeaSpark | says | cuaguy: I never have and it is a staple at the most consrervative parishes around here |
| MakeMeaSpark | says | We do it with Choir and organ just like they did for Ben 16 at the Washington DC mass when i saw the Holy Father singing along with it |
| cuaguy | says | I hat it- it changes that mass text, and as far as I am concerened, it is a piece of you know what musically |
| cuaguy | says | Unfortunately, it was probably the best musical selection at that mass... needed to take a cue from NY on how to chose music... |
| Snupnjake | wonders | what massive cremation is |
| Snupnjake | wonders | and if she likes it |
| cuaguy | says | it is more commenly known as "Mass of Creation" |
| MakeMeaSpark | says | Placido Domingo sang Panis Angelicus actually that was the best part |
| Snupnjake | says | ah she knows that. |
| Snupnjake | says | actually knew the different parts once upon a time |
| Snupnjake | has | no opinion. Is better than some, worse than some eh |
| MrsC(Carleigh) | Hi CD. Hi CUA. My girls sang Esurientes Implevit Bonis right before we begged for money. Not a Mass thing,but not without irony |
| cuaguy | says | Makemeaspark: ooops though that I out one of the best... |
| cuaguy | says | ni msc |
| MakeMeaSpark | says | Where is Aristotle? i want him to guess what we are singing sunday |
| cuaguy | says | what do you think about massive cremation? |
| MakeMeaSpark | says | cuaguy: YOU were one of the best parts of the papal mass? i missed that....darn! |
| cuaguy | says | no, though I was at the youth rally at dunwoodie, and was about to puke when Kelly Clarkson destroyed the ave |
| MrsC(Carleigh) | eeewww...Clarkson & the Ave? |
| cuaguy | says | would you like a video? |
| cuaguy | says | i hope not... |
| MakeMeaSpark | says | yes some people really should not attempt the Ave Maria in any version |
| MrsC(Carleigh) | Or the star banged up spangle either. |
| cuaguy | says | Makemeaspark: MsC:  |
| Snupnjake | says | I didn't think it was that bad...but is known to be a heathen |
| cuaguy | says | now to get that ugly tast out of your mouth: |
| cuaguy | says |  |
| MrsC(Carleigh) | I didn't even know they made that in English.  |
| MrsC(Carleigh) | (actually, I did, but why breathe every three seconds?) |
| cuaguy | says | or |
| cuaguy | says |  |
| Snupnjake | says | what is the panis angelicus |
| cuaguy | says | and no matter of what you think of it, everyone was mesmerized during the singing of the Litany at the youth rally |
| cuaguy | says |  |
| Snupnjake | says | and it goes where in the Mass |
| cuaguy | says | normally as a communion hymn |
| cuaguy | says | My latin is not the best, but Panis Angelicus means "Bread of Angels" |
| cuaguy | says | if I am not mistaken |
| MakeMeaSpark | says | ewww CUA no thanks |
| MakeMeaSpark | says | I hate bad covers! |
| MrsC(Carleigh) | Wow, the Litany at that tempo. My boss takes it at freight train on a dark night through Kansas speed |
| MakeMeaSpark | says | I can do justice to Shuberts Ave Maria! |
| cuaguy | says | I hope that the no thanks is to the Ave |
| MakeMeaSpark | says | MsC: I hate it when people sing too fast too |
| cuaguy | says | my second favorite part was that litnay, considering the other musical selections at that... |
| MakeMeaSpark | says | I have a bad tendancy to mutter under my breath when the songs are too fast |
| MakeMeaSpark | says | ALright i will spill |
| MakeMeaSpark | says | We are singing *Shine Jesus SHine*! |
| MakeMeaSpark | says | I told Denis it might bug some folks! |
| MakeMeaSpark | says | My sister would walk out of a mass that has that song in it |
| MrsC(Carleigh) | AGHRHGHRHGHSD:KDFJ:LKGDJ/l.dmfgb;pzsodjitgf' *bangs head on keyboard* |
| MakeMeaSpark | says | wait a minute which thing are you head banging about? |
| MakeMeaSpark | says | you head banger! |
| cuaguy | says | agrees with msC about *Shine Jesus Shine* and with sparks sister |
| Snupnjake | says | I hate to be a wet blanket |
| Snupnjake | says | but i will be |
| MrsC(Carleigh) | Shine Jesus is one of those things that was okay at first but has become "It's a Small World" level annoying to me |
| Snupnjake | says | I will admit I have little musical talent or taste |
| MakeMeaSpark | says | Go for it |
| Snupnjake | says | but is not the point to keep people to connected to the Church in some ways |
| Snupnjake | says | I know when I parish hop |
| MakeMeaSpark | says | yes agreed |
| Snupnjake | says | it is distressing to me when we sing songs I don't know because I feel like I am not part of the community |
| Snupnjake | says | and therefore not connected to the Body of Christ |
| MakeMeaSpark | says | guys i am just a voice! big D is large and In charge! |
| cuaguy | says |  |
| Snupnjake | says | additionally, just getting people to come to Church on a regular basis is monumental |
| MakeMeaSpark | says | NNNNNNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO |
| MakeMeaSpark | says | NNNNNNNNNN)))))))))) |
| MakeMeaSpark | says | DOn't click on it! |
| cuaguy | says | you know you want to *while listining to Panis* |
| Snupnjake | says | singing the songs reminds me about my childhood Catholicism |
| Snupnjake | says | and how much I believed when I was little |
| MakeMeaSpark | says | but isn't the Catholic church all about suffering?  |
| Snupnjake | says | that would be listening to whoever cantored teh song on Easter Sunday before the Gospel |
| Snupnjake | says | OMG |
| Snupnjake | says | I guess what I'm trying to say is that songs like Shine Jesus Shine, and Gather Us In, speak to us Heathen Catholics |
| Snupnjake | says | in a way that Panis Anglicus and all the rest don't |
| MrsC(Carleigh) | cuaguy: Don't make me drive to DC and hurt you.  Really...you're good with a mouse, huh? I'm not clicking that song bomb. |
| Snupnjake | says | Makemeaspark: I hear they are redoing the song, making it more modern |
| cuaguy | says | fine, let me find something else that might be better |
| MrsC(Carleigh) | I hear you snup. My gripe is with Shine being repetitive |
| cuaguy | says |  |
| Snupnjake | says | I agree. I remember in grade school the teachers finally had to put their foots down |
| Snupnjake | says | we didn't need to sing Eagle's wings every Mass |
| Snupnjake | says | I think we sang it at every Mass for a month |
| cuaguy | says | as far as I am concerned, it never needs to be sung... |
| MrsC(Carleigh) | We still sing it and it's four little friends at every funeral. Barg. If I die, I've let it be KNOWN not to sing them at my funeral or I'l |
| MrsC(Carleigh) | I'll get up and leave |
| Snupnjake | says | what are the four little friends? |
| Snupnjake | says | hey we sang during the Easter season. |
| Snupnjake | says | this is what happens when you let 8th and 7th graders organize the Mass |
| Snupnjake | says | without full Catechis |
| MrsC(Carleigh) | Be Not Afraid, Amazing Grace, Shepherd Me O God, and How Great Thou Art. |
| Ἀριστοτέλης | says | did everyone see that excerpt from Fr. Kirby in Tulsa? |
| cuaguy | says | I would create your funeral mass now. I want to stipulate that BLACK vestments must be worn... but thats just me |
| cuaguy | says | CD- no |
| Ἀριστοτέλης | hold on |
| Ἀριστοτέλης | my commentary on Fr. Kirby's research...links added |
| Ἀριστοτέλης | says | warning: i can be too forward for some... |
| Snupnjake | says | I like shepherd me o God |
| Snupnjake | says | beyond my wants beyond my needs |
| Snupnjake | says | from death into life |
| Ἀριστοτέλης | says | it's an incredibly delicate matter to speak of music because of people's attachments to tunes, lyrics, and styles |
| MakeMeaSpark | says | Thank you sir! |
| Snupnjake | says | you don't say? |
| MakeMeaSpark | says | I am not particularly attatched to Shine Jesus Shine--but i do enjoy seeing my sister go into convulsions once in a while. |
| Ἀριστοτέλης | says | yw...i hope it's provocative without being condescending. |
| MakeMeaSpark | says | muuuuhaaahahahahahahahahahaha |
| Ἀριστοτέλης | says | Makemeaspark:  |
| MakeMeaSpark | says | MY sister is the intense one |
| cuaguy | says | I didn't find it condescending. In fact, I like your suggestion about using both a hymn and the introit |
| MakeMeaSpark | says | i am the ADD easygoing sister |
| MakeMeaSpark | says | she is the one that stabs you with guilt eyes if you are one minute late for a holiday meal |
| Ἀριστοτέλης | says | being rather intense myself by nature i appreciate the...'stimulus' you provide her! |
| cuaguy | says | What they do at the BNSIC, is for the choral mass, they chant the Introit, either in Latin or English, and then process to a metrical hymn |
| MakeMeaSpark | says | Unfortunately she does not go to the parish where i sing |
| MakeMeaSpark | says | She goes to the Cathedral |
| Ἀριστοτέλης | says | cuaguy: yes, hymns at best should be additive, not substitutive |
| Snupnjake | says | doesn't know what most of the stuff is that you are talking about CD |
| Snupnjake | says | what's an introit |
| Ἀριστοτέλης | says | oh ok |
| Snupnjake | says | I thought the proper was the opening prayer |
| cuaguy | says | The Entrance Antiphon |
| Ἀριστοτέλης | asks | who wants a quick course in musical liturgics? |
| Snupnjake | says | Antiphon is like the verses in O Come O Come Emmanual |
| MakeMeaSpark | says | cuaguy: at my home parish we usually do Veni Creator Spiritus right when we come on the air and then there is an opening song--choir mass |
| Snupnjake | says | ME ME ME  |
| MakeMeaSpark | says | During Easter we have a special Introit |
| cuaguy | says | snup- no, it is part of the propers |
| Ἀριστοτέλης | says | forgive the cross-talk, here I go |
| MakeMeaSpark | says | Antiphon is a verse and an answer |
| MakeMeaSpark | says | psalms are done antiphonally |
| cuaguy | says | there is one for each day of they liturgical year |
| Ἀριστοτέλης | says | propers of the mass are the parts of the mass that change from day to day, week to week |
| cuaguy | says | Makemeaspark: it is a bad translation to english... |
| Ἀριστοτέλης | says | musically, there are five proper chants: the Introit, Gradual, Alleluia, Offertory, and Communion |
| Snupnjake | says | what's the gradual |
| Ἀριστοτέλης | says | (The Alleluia is replaced by the Tract in Lent, while in Easter, a second Alleluia replaces the Gradual) |
| Snupnjake | thinks | she recalls seeing these in the paper missels the parish had |
| Snupnjake | thinks | where is the gradual |
| Ἀριστοτέλης | says | the Gradual is the 'interlectionary chant', that is, the chant between the first and second readings for Sunday Mass |
| Snupnjake | thinks | oh wait the gradual is the Amen yes? |
| Snupnjake | thinks | oops guess not |
| cuaguy | says | gradual is another option for the Psalm |
| Ἀριστοτέλης | says | in current practice the Gradual is supplanted by the Responsorial Psalm from the Lectionary |
| Snupnjake | oh..not supposed to sing a song there |
| Snupnjake | oops |
| cuaguy | says | more like, the psalm is an option to replace the gradual |
| Ἀριστοτέλης | says | cuaguy: correct |
| Snupnjake | ooooo we replace both someitmes and sing a song |
| Ἀριστοτέλης | says | here's where it gets complicated |
| Ἀριστοτέλης | says | as i understand it |
| MakeMeaSpark | says | wait what is a bad translation CUA? |
| Ἀριστοτέλης | says | the antiphons in the missalettes correspond to the ones in the Sacramentary...and apparently these are to be used only in 'spoken' Masses |
| MakeMeaSpark | says | or anybody? |
| Ἀριστοτέλης | says | Makemeaspark: let me attempt to answer that |
| MakeMeaSpark | says | so the psalm is not MEANT to be antiphonal? |
| cuaguy | says | Makemeaspark: introit to entrance antiphon |
| MakeMeaSpark | says | in song that is |
| Ἀριστοτέλης | says | well...it is, actually |
| MakeMeaSpark | says | ok good |
| Snupnjake | this is confusing to plurk |
| Ἀριστοτέλης | says | now the bad translation issue |
| MakeMeaSpark | says | k |
| Ἀριστοτέλης | says | i will use the shepherd me o god since it was mentioned earlier (sorry snup; please don't take this as an indictment of your tastes) |
| Ἀριστοτέλης | says | the publisher currently markets it as "Psalm 23" |
| Ἀριστοτέλης | says | however, a really close reading of it contrasting with, say, the NAB translation, reveals that it's more of a gloss than a translation |
| Ἀριστοτέλης | says | if you wanted to use it as 'another suitable song' (cf. GIRM), that's okay |
| Ἀριστοτέλης | says | but strictly speaking, the publisher is guilty of false advertising |
| cuaguy | says | don't we use the Grail for psalms though? not to mention that it is Psalm 22 in the Vulgate, so... |
| Ἀριστοτέλης | says | again, i don't wish to attack anyone's preferences here...just stating somewhat detachedly what the situation is |
| Snupnjake | I would agree it is not the most accurate of rtranslations |
| Ἀριστοτέλης | says | now, about the propers in the missal versus other propers |
| Ἀριστοτέλης | says | for whatever reason, the missal propers don't coincide with the propers found in the roman gradual (the official "songbook" for the Mass) |
| MakeMeaSpark | says | The vulgate is translated from texts that are from around 700-800 AD |
| Ἀριστοτέλης | says | i have read that the missal propers are supposed to be for recited masses |
| MakeMeaSpark | says | Newer translations use the Dead Sea or Qumran Scrolls and a few others that are much older AND the vulgate |
| Ἀριστοτέλης | says | Makemeaspark: the vulgate or the neo-vulgate? |
| MakeMeaSpark | says | i have never heard of the Neo vulgate |
| Ἀριστοτέλης | says | i have st. jerome, the vulgate translator listed as dying in 420 (wikipedia, so double check) |
| cuaguy | says | I wish that I could afford a doughy rheims translation |
| cuaguy | says | those are expensive... |
| Ἀριστοτέλης | says | the neo-vulgate is a more modern scholarly work undertaken in the last century |
| Ἀριστοτέλης | says | anyway... |
| Snupnjake | go on |
| MakeMeaSpark | says | at a glance it looks like the Neo Vulgate is just a retranslation from the same text |
| Ἀριστοτέλης | says | the propers (introit/entrance), gradual, alleluia/tract, offertory and communion almost all are taken from Scripture |
| Ἀριστοτέλης | says | so they have the guarantee of divine inspiration |
| MakeMeaSpark | says | right |
| Ἀριστοτέλης | says | i mean, the canonical guarantee |
| Ἀριστοτέλης | says | which is why when the church regulates the liturgy on paper, these options need no prior approval from the competent ecclesial authority |
| Ἀριστοτέλης | says | that is, the diocesan ordinary |
| MakeMeaSpark | says | So singing "at that first Eucharist" would not be in the Propers for instance? |
| Ἀριστοτέλης | says | bishop |
| Ἀριστοτέλης | says | exactly |
| Ἀριστοτέλης | says | strictly speaking, that's a devotional eucharistic hymn |
| Snupnjake | I'm guessing anything by the St. Louis Jesuits as well |
| Ἀριστοτέλης | says | while inspired by scripture, it's not scripture itself |
| MakeMeaSpark | says | Thus the Popes Preference for Chant? |
| Ἀριστοτέλης | says | well, we'd have to use discernment on a case-by-case basis |
| Ἀριστοτέλης | says | not exactly |
| MakeMeaSpark | says | hmmmm |
| Ἀριστοτέλης | says | pange lingua gloriosi is a chant hymn, for example |
| Ἀριστοτέλης | says | but isn't a proper chant |
| MakeMeaSpark | says | ok |
| Snupnjake | glory bread? |
| MakeMeaSpark | says | good rough trans snup |
| Ἀριστοτέλης | says | haven't heard that one, |
| Ἀριστοτέλης | says | can't say |
| MakeMeaSpark | says |  |
| Ἀριστοτέλης | says | now there are a lot of comps that use scripture, however, one must see how they shoehorned it to fit the music |
| Ἀριστοτέλης | says | and even that's an issue |
| MakeMeaSpark | says | oi |
| Ἀριστοτέλης | says | the church's (not necessarily the pope's, though his example certainly helps) |
| Ἀριστοτέλης | says | preference stems from the biblical origins of liturgical worship |
| Ἀριστοτέλης | says | and remember |
| cuaguy | says | gradual: doughy rheims |
| cuaguy | says | sorry, link didn't copy |
| MakeMeaSpark | says | www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-fc/beam.gif |
| Ἀριστοτέλης | says | many protestant...protests about the Mass stem from the erroneous assumption that the Mass is unbiblical |
| MakeMeaSpark | says | That is luny |
| Ἀριστοτέλης | says | where in fact, the Mass, especially when celebrated to the fullest, is awash in Scripture |
| Ἀριστοτέλης | says | it's an absolute flood |
| Snupnjake | I seem to remember that when I went to a teaching Mass |
| Ἀριστοτέλης | says | now onto the composition issue |
| MakeMeaSpark | says | it is awesome to study Jewish traditions to see the link with the apostles into the mass also! |
| Ἀριστοτέλης | says | the question for liturgical composers is always, what comes first, the word or the melody? |
| Ἀριστοτέλης | says | the answer should always be the word |
| MakeMeaSpark | says | AMEN |
| Ἀριστοτέλης | says | since it's a manifestation of the Word (correct my theology please) |
| MakeMeaSpark | says | That is always my goal when i sing, cant or lector |
| cuaguy | says | musicasacra.com/books/americangradual1.pdf(Gradual in English) |
| Ἀριστοτέλης | says | so the music must be sacred (i.e., set apart) because the words are sacred |
| Ἀριστοτέλης | says | i'm now drawing on Orthodox liturgical reflections |
| Ἀριστοτέλης | says | (perhaps some can see why the Orthodox have an affinity for Benedict... in that he's the most "liturgical pope" in quite some time) |
| MakeMeaSpark | says | that is for sure |
| Ἀριστοτέλης | says | so when you look at a proper chant, say the first Sunday of Advent |
| Ἀριστοτέλης | says | introit |
| Ἀριστοτέλης | says | the words in English* are, "To you I lift my soul, in you I trust, let me never be confounded;... |
| MakeMeaSpark | says | psalm 27 |
| MakeMeaSpark | says | no 34 |
| MakeMeaSpark | says | sorry |
| Ἀριστοτέλης | says | ...neither let my enemies laugh at me me, for none of those who await you will be disappointed" |
| Ἀριστοτέλης | says | psalm 24(25)1-4 (cf. Gregorian Missal) |
| Ἀριστοτέλης | says | both in the Ordinary and Extraordinary Forms this is the entrance chant |
| MakeMeaSpark | says | oh my gosh its 25 v 2 |
| MakeMeaSpark | says | 2 in you I trust, O my God. Do not let me be put to shame, nor let my enemies triumph over me. |
| Ἀριστοτέλης | says | verse: Make your ways known unto me, O lord, and teach me your paths" |
| MakeMeaSpark | says | I memorized all of those three about 20 yrs ago |
| Ἀριστοτέλης | says | now, a question by analogy |
| MakeMeaSpark | says | k |
| Snupnjake | k |
| Ἀριστοτέλης | says | what would one think if the second reading (which in a way, is a proper) is replaced by a reading from Ratzinger's Feast of Faith? |
| Snupnjake | uhm no |
| Ἀριστοτέλης | says | exactly |
| Snupnjake | the 2nd reading is supposed to connect the new and the old |
| Ἀριστοτέλης | says | yet that is exactly what is done with the sung propers |
| Ἀριστοτέλης | says | they are replaced |
| Snupnjake | besides if you can replace it with one thing, why not replaceit with another |
| Snupnjake | ooooo |
| Ἀριστοτέλης | says | they are chosen as music qua music, not liturgy qua liturgy |
| cuaguy | says | CD- I could get technical on you, and state that the second readong from the OoR is not from the bible, but from someone else |
| Ἀριστοτέλης | says | sure, but in that case it's assigned, yes? (please enlighten) |
| cuaguy | says | it is assigned... and can't be replaced |
| Ἀριστοτέλης | says | there you go |
| Ἀριστοτέλης | says | now, i have lived my share of music selection meetings with liturgy committees |
| Snupnjake | OoR |
| Ἀριστοτέλης | says | *it ain't fun* |
| Ἀριστοτέλης | says | (office of readings) |
| cuaguy | says | Office of Readings aka amtins |
| cuaguy | says | Matins* |
| cuaguy | says | one of the Hours from the Divine off ice |
| Ἀριστοτέλης | says | and the Church's highest directive was never on the radar screen! |
| cuaguy | says | Office* |
| Ἀριστοτέλης | says | I thought the chanted Propers were a thing of the past...till I bought the Roman Gradual and Gregorian Missal for the Ordinary Form |
| Snupnjake | wonders | about the Hours and the Divine office...what's the difference |
| Ἀριστοτέλης | says | now, a word about musical style |
| cuaguy | says | The others are Morning Prayer (Lauds) Mid-morning prayer (terce) Mid-day prayer (sext) mid-afternoon prayer(non) evening prayer (vespers) |
| Snupnjake | says | we used to chant the responsorial psalm in grade school |
| cuaguy | says | and night prayer (compline) |
| Snupnjake | says | we would mark up the misselettes with the little thingies so we could sing |
| Ἀριστοτέλης | says | that's certainly the highest intention of the Church |
| Ἀριστοτέλης | says | but not to sing it as music qua music, but prayer |
| Snupnjake | says | I never understood why more places didn't do that. we never practice until 10 or so minutes before Mass right after we |
| Snupnjake | says | marked it up |
| Ἀριστοτέλης | says | a lot of church chants aren't that..."pretty"...but music penetrates in a way few other things can |
| Ἀριστοτέλης | says | stylistically, the Church only asks that the propers be sung |
| Ἀριστοτέλης | says | it doesn't actually dictate that they be in Gregorian Chant |
| Ἀριστοτέλης | says | though it of course gives first preference to chant and plainsong |
| Ἀριστοτέλης | says | matt maher or marty haugen could set that introit text for Advent I to their own styles, and technically be in the clear |
| Ἀριστοτέλης | says | so long as they don't alter the text of a translation approved for liturgy (i think) |
| Snupnjake | says | agreed |
| Ἀριστοτέλης | says | but the Church wants you to hear "To you I lift my soul..." |
| Ἀριστοτέλης | says | personally, I can't imagine Advent I without it...having lived with it for the last couple of years |
| Ἀριστοτέλης | says | it's often hard to maintain composure when singing it sometimes |
| Ἀριστοτέλης | says | this is the 'sober inebriation' of which Pope Benedict speaks |
| Snupnjake | says | but I thought the Church just said we couldn't sing that anymore |
| MakeMeaSpark | says | ok i think i am following you now after a second reading throught that |
| Snupnjake | says | cause Yahweh is in it |
| Ἀριστοτέλης | says | if you get it through chant, good. if you get it through P&W, good. so long as I get it |
| Ἀριστοτέλης | says | you get it |
| MakeMeaSpark | says | probably more of this would be clear to me if i went to a TLM some day |
| Ἀριστοτέλης | says | oh, you cannot utter YHWH...you replace it with "Lord" (or written, "LORD" |
| Ἀριστοτέλης | says | ) |
| Ἀριστοτέλης | says | Makemeaspark not always |
| Ἀριστοτέλης | says | if it's a Missa Cantata, yes, I'd say so |
| Ἀριστοτέλης | says | but |
| Ἀριστοτέλης | says | the Low Mass is afflicted with the "four hymn sandwich" as well |
| MakeMeaSpark | says | I prefer the Praise and worship that is scripture or more personal myself when i do p& w |
| MakeMeaSpark | says | But i like music |
| Ἀριστοτέλης | says | and because things are somewhat more strictured there, no Missa Cantata, no propers |
| cuaguy | says | Sun 4/26/09 8:00 AM ET / 5 AM PT |
| Ἀριστοτέλης | says | ah yes...the EF Mass on EWTN |
| cuaguy | says | on EWTN, thats tomorrow, a Missa Cantata |
| MakeMeaSpark | says | I love choir except when we sing some wierd ones that sound like they are from a 1930's drama |
| Ἀριστοτέλης | says | at Mass, the Church wants you to get "spiritually drunk" on primary sources, that is, the Word, as well as receiving the Word made Flesh |
| Ἀριστοτέλης | says | if hymns replace that, that doesn't happen to the extent that it ought |
| Ἀριστοτέλης | says | very few non-scriptural texts in 2,000 years have made it into the Mass. |
| Snupnjake | says | i see |
| Ἀριστοτέλης | says | many were redacted in previous reforms |
| cuaguy | says | spark: EF masses that you can watch online: www.sanctamissa.org/en/tutorial/sample-liturgies.html |
| Ἀριστοτέλης | says | Gregorian Missal in PDF for Ordinary Form Masses |
| Ἀριστοτέλης | says | English-Latin |
| Ἀριστοτέλης | says | Solesmes granted digital distribution permissions only a couple of months ago |
| MakeMeaSpark | says | cuaguy: thanks CUA |
| MakeMeaSpark | says | i have to download pdf's |
| MakeMeaSpark | says | i can't open them in my browser it crashes--corrupt file that we have not been able to fix yet |
| Ἀριστοτέλης | says | oy |
| MakeMeaSpark | says | YA |
| MakeMeaSpark | says |  |
| cuaguy | says | thanks, need to download that |
| Ἀριστοτέλης | says | ooh ooh |
| MakeMeaSpark | says | that is why i asked pleeps here to tell if a file is a pdf |
| MakeMeaSpark | says | when they link it |
| Ἀριστοτέλης | says | advent I gradual: "They will not be disappointed, Lord, all those who are awaiting you" |
| Ἀριστοτέλης | says | "Verse: Make your ways known unto me, O Lord, and teach me your paths." |
| MakeMeaSpark | says | Gradual is where now? |
| Ἀριστοτέλης | says | a textual repeat of the Introit...and amplification of sorts |
| MakeMeaSpark | says | guideme in your truth and teach me |
| MakeMeaSpark | says | for you are god my savoir |
| Ἀριστοτέλης | says | (after the first reading) |
| MakeMeaSpark | says | i know this one |
| MakeMeaSpark | says | BRB |
| Ἀριστοτέλης | says | Alleluia verse, Advent I: "Show us your mercy, O Lord, and grant us your salvation" |
| Ἀριστοτέλης | says | the offertory is yet another iteration of the Introit and Gradual text |
| Ἀριστοτέλης | says | and finally, the Communion: "The Lord will bestow his loving kindness, and our land will yield its fruit" (Ps. 84(85):13 |
| Ἀριστοτέλης | says | the Church's prescriptions for this Sunday's chants fairly scream "Advent is here" |
| MakeMeaSpark | says | I love the readings, i read them every day with special emphasis on the psalms |
| Ἀριστοτέλης | hopes | i don't come off as pedantic...because i think this is seriously cool (and important) stuff |
| MakeMeaSpark | says | one of my life goals is to memorize all the psalms |
| MakeMeaSpark | says | You are really in teacher mode it is good! |
| cuaguy | says | not at all CD |
| Ἀριστοτέλης | says | here's another justification for psalm-singing at Mass |
| Ἀριστοτέλης | says | above hymns |
| Snupnjake | says | she is learning lots |
| Ἀριστοτέλης | says | Was Jesus a Jew? |
| MakeMeaSpark | says | YES |
| Ἀριστοτέλης | says | Did he not worship according to Jewish law? |
| MakeMeaSpark | says | And he sang the Hallel on Passover |
| Ἀριστοτέλης | says | Did not that Jewish worship entail Psalm recitation? |
| MakeMeaSpark | says | RE the last supper |
| MakeMeaSpark | says | The hallel are the 15 passover psalms |
| Ἀριστοτέλης | says | did he not recite psalms from the Cross? |
| MakeMeaSpark | says | yes |
| Snupnjake | says | I dunno..Not Jewish.... |
| MakeMeaSpark | says | psalm 110 i think and 22 |
| Ἀριστοτέλης | says | my god, my god, why have you forsaken me |
| Ἀριστοτέλης | says | into your hands, O Lord, I commend my spirit |
| MakeMeaSpark | says | thats 22 |
| MakeMeaSpark | says | 110 is the most quoted in the NT |
| Ἀριστοτέλης | says | ratified unto the end |
| Ἀριστοτέλης | says | literally |
| MakeMeaSpark | says | yes |
| Ἀριστοτέλης | says | that's pretty awesome if you meditate on that |
| MakeMeaSpark | says | it is |
| Ἀριστοτέλης | says | our songbook he sang...to the very end |
| MakeMeaSpark | says | COOL |
| Ἀριστοτέλης | says | i have a pious belief that he recited psalm 118(119) on the way to Calvary |
| MakeMeaSpark | says | you are waxing eloquent now! |
| MakeMeaSpark | says | 119 |
| Ἀριστοτέλης | says | the longest psalm for the longest walk |
| MakeMeaSpark | says | I love that one yes |
| MakeMeaSpark | says | it has a lot about suffering in it |
| MakeMeaSpark | says | in my morning readings i stream the days psalm at least twice for meditation, 3-4 times on a good day |
| MakeMeaSpark | says | The online NIV has a very good reader |
| cuaguy | says | is the confetior supposed to be Chanted? I see that its not set to music in the Gregorian Missal |
| MakeMeaSpark | says | www.ibsstl.org/niv/index.php |
| MakeMeaSpark | says | i have never heard a musical setting for it |
| Ἀριστοτέλης | says | the confiteor is usually recited in the ordinary form, but there is a tone in the extraordinary form for it |
| MakeMeaSpark | says | wow |
| Ἀριστοτέλης | says | this was chanted before Communion...the 'second Confiteor' |
| cuaguy | says | ok |
| MakeMeaSpark | says | so just plain chant? |
| Ἀριστοτέλης | says | by the deacon and subdeacon |
| Ἀριστοτέλης | says | no, there is a formula |
| cuaguy | says | i think that there should be a tone for it in the OF |
| MakeMeaSpark | says | ok |
| Ἀριστοτέλης | says | like those for the readings |
| Snupnjake | says | which one is 118/119 |
| Ἀριστοτέλης | says | at the CMAA Colloquium we just sing it on one tone |
| MakeMeaSpark | says | i did not know that small sins are fogiven at mass until one of the priests here mentioned it |
| MakeMeaSpark | says | If you go to the link i gave it is 119 |
| MakeMeaSpark | says | that is the more common numbering system |
| Ἀριστοτέλης | says | but in the EF it's somewhat similar to the Prophecy Tone (though it's a stretch to compare the two) |
| cuaguy | says | yup, venial sins are forgiven during the penential rite |
| cuaguy | says | would love to go one year |
| Ἀριστοτέλης | says | for many people it's a week of transfiguration |
| MakeMeaSpark | says | that is good to know so missing mass does not exclude you from communion the next time? |
| MakeMeaSpark | says | do you mean the Via Dolorosa? |
| MakeMeaSpark | says | oh the colloquim |
| MakeMeaSpark | says | lost the thread for a sec |
| Ἀριστοτέλης | says | |
| Ἀριστοτέλης | says | understandable! |
| cuaguy | says | no, it does mot spark-missing mass is a mortal sin, while the penitential rite only forgives venial sins |
| MakeMeaSpark | says | AH |
| MakeMeaSpark | says | oh dear so i compounded my sin? |
| Ἀριστοτέλης | says | if it's a missed Sunday or HDO that was missed, that is |
| MakeMeaSpark | says |  |
| MakeMeaSpark | says | ok next sat i don't go to work till 3:30 so i can go to confession........but no communion this week...... |
| Ἀριστοτέλης | says |  get thee absolution! |
| MakeMeaSpark | says | yessir! |
| MakeMeaSpark | says | sigh...... |
| cuaguy | says | correct, unless you can get to confession tomorrow before mass |
| MakeMeaSpark | says | pray i don't get hit by a truck in the meanwhile |
| MakeMeaSpark | says | on a sunday? |
| Ἀριστοτέλης | says | consider it done |
| MakeMeaSpark | says | is that like "make it so, number one!" |
| Ἀριστοτέλης | says | (not in terms of assuming that we will, but in trust that we will ) |
| MakeMeaSpark | says | thanks |
| MakeMeaSpark | says | i don't wanna go to H. e. double toothpicks.... |
| Ἀριστοτέλης | says | then afterwards, you can recite psalm 34(33) |
| MakeMeaSpark | says | i can recite it now that is the first psalm i memorized |
| MakeMeaSpark | says | i know what you mean ....penance |
| MakeMeaSpark | says | i probably should split rocks for all my sins! |
| MakeMeaSpark | says | |
| Ἀριστοτέλης | says | instead, you'll probably receive something light, and you can split rocks in thanksgiving |
| MakeMeaSpark | says | thanks |
| MakeMeaSpark | says |  |
| MakeMeaSpark | says | I am going to share the gist of this thread with Denis the leader of our little lifeteen band, he is a very faithful Catholic |
| MakeMeaSpark | says | and has a degree in music and is very smart |
| MakeMeaSpark | says | will probably copy the thread and edit out the dross from me mostly |
| Snupnjake | hey now... |
| MakeMeaSpark | says | I just want him to hear the liturgical stuff not my personal junk--he already knows a lot about me |
| Snupnjake | but you are not dross |
| MakeMeaSpark | says | i want him to read the teaching stuff about the liturgy not our personal chat stuff |
| Snupnjake | oh right! |
| Ἀριστοτέλης | wants | to know the response! |
| Ἀριστοτέλης | MsC: I *just* saw that...that's so richly appropriate |
| MakeMeaSpark | says | You mean her "its a small world" comment? |
| MakeMeaSpark | says | that was funny |
| MakeMeaSpark | says | The song does not have a lot of meaning for me actually |
| Ἀριστοτέλης | actually, the "esurientes implevit bonis" choir episode before begging |
| MakeMeaSpark | says | I would rather sing Vicki Beeching's "Above All Else" |
| MakeMeaSpark | says | where was that? |
| MakeMeaSpark | says | thats ok i am tired and should try to sing with Choir in the morning--i miss being a cantor but if i don't show up i can't get on the list! |
| MrsC(Carleigh) | cantemusdomino: yeah, but rarely does anyone in the general population "get" my little observations on life. Thanks for the "get". |
| MakeMeaSpark | says | He is a pretty smart fellow this Aristotle guy! |
| Ἀριστοτέλης | Makemeaspark my cross to bear |
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