A Jet Black ♥ Aug 17, 2012 02:35AM I hate trying to promote things on plurk because I never know what category to use
Bowler Hat Guy Aug 17, 2012 04:13AM that's presumptive in regards to what people want to do with their lives, tho. which sorta distracts from the message.
LemmanZest Aug 17, 2012 04:18AM Good. This is a very good thing, and a beautiful response, and just exactly what a lot of people need to hear.
CPT ROGERS Aug 17, 2012 04:38AM ...wow i definitely wasn't expecting to have such an emotional response to this comment
shenanigans Aug 17, 2012 06:56AM sun_cosmos I concur. I think the message is great but I was like "sheesh, why so much about sex, romance and children?" it's nbd I just...
shenanigans Aug 17, 2012 06:57AM Not everyone wants that, why so much emphasis on one group of things
Bowler Hat Guy Aug 17, 2012 07:03AM it reinforces the whole girls growing up to get married and do the domestic junk = ultimate life fulfillment thing, so yeah
SHSL HERO Aug 17, 2012 07:09AM At the same time, those can be considered "classic examples" of fulfilling things in life, and it also mentions totally unrelated things.
SHSL HERO Aug 17, 2012 07:09AM I do get where you're coming from though, and it is written a little weirdly...
SHSL HERO Aug 17, 2012 07:10AM But the important bit to focus on is those last two lines. It doesn't matter what someone wants out of life, those two facts stay true.
Bowler Hat Guy Aug 17, 2012 07:22AM People spout niceties on a regular basis. They can ring rather hollow, since most people just do it to be polite.
mercurial. Aug 17, 2012 08:16AM I like this. It's something good, for a change. A counterpoint to the amount of WOW YOU'RE UGLY or JUST KILL YOURSELF on the internet.
ᴋᴏᴍᴏʀʏ ʙᴀᴛ Aug 17, 2012 08:29AM emphasis on having a baby is a bit alienating for people who vehemently never want to have one...
@rattitude Aug 17, 2012 11:39AM She's probably someone who really wants a child herself. I don't think she was intending for everyone to see it or to offend anyone.
@rattitude Aug 17, 2012 11:39AM She was thinking of that girl, and that's the part that saddened her.
TopCat Aug 17, 2012 01:28PM Having a kid is usually an expected assumption of the world, its not meant to alienate or offend so imo it doesn't ruin this message at all
Bowler Hat Guy Aug 17, 2012 04:23PM Politeness is often mistaken for kindness. It doesn't mean they care. People shouldn't put much stock in what strangers say.
Bowler Hat Guy Aug 17, 2012 04:24PM and whoever wrote the thing is still stereotyping, even if they didn't intend to
bondonkadonk Aug 17, 2012 04:37PM sun_cosmos ngl, thought this too. my little girl dreams involved kicking ass, not having babies. i'm sure there's plenty of others the same
shenanigans Aug 17, 2012 04:38PM I don't think anyone's trying to drag down the meaning of the message simply by disagreeing with some of the examples given. There's a
ѕнє Aug 17, 2012 04:38PM Some people post hateful things just to get a rise out of others, not because they have a hateful life themselves.
ѕнє Aug 17, 2012 04:38PM And yeah, the person writing this is probably thinking of themselves and maybe what the parents wanted, projecting yes
shenanigans Aug 17, 2012 04:38PM simple difference in opinion here, but that's all, and I don't think there's an issue with people pointing out things that they don't really
ѕнє Aug 17, 2012 04:39PM so she's making assumptions, yes, and maybe that's wrong? but i think the message still comes through all the same
ѕнє Aug 17, 2012 04:39PM The girl won't be able to live her life the way she wants to, whether or not it's the things mentioned. Who knows what they are.
skyfall Aug 17, 2012 04:42PM it's very tearjerking, the only part i'm skeptical of is some kid going "you are beautiful and deserve to live"
ᴘɪᴛʏ ɴᴏᴏᴅʟᴇ Aug 17, 2012 04:44PM well, it was probably not those exact words, but that is the message the writer preceived.
skyfall Aug 17, 2012 04:48PM reminds me of a story i saw in the news, about a guy who needed heart surgery so he planned to
skyfall Aug 17, 2012 04:49PM and apparently he had all these guns, and he was convinced to stop by this sweet dog
ms. frizzle Aug 17, 2012 04:49PM yeah, and it doesn't particularly matter what the kid meant, because if what this person got out of it was "I shouldn't kill myself" that's
シャドウ ✦ Aug 17, 2012 04:51PM the parts that hit me most were about the girl's dad and mom really. because i know if i somehow ever died my parents would be
シャドウ ✦ Aug 17, 2012 04:52PM i can only imagine what the parents go through after losing a child to that.
eat a dick Aug 17, 2012 05:05PM ...it was pretty touching for me up until the little girl example tbh... like i understand the writer's trying to tug at heartstrings and
eat a dick Aug 17, 2012 05:05PM all that but that kind of assuming/projection just ends up making me uncomfortable
eat a dick Aug 17, 2012 05:08PM "a 13 year old girl from my town" isn't exactly how someone refers to a close friend, and talking about what the guy said on the day the kid
eat a dick was Aug 17, 2012 05:09PM born implies the person was either there, or spoke directly to the father and the man decided to drop everything and talk about personal
Kathryn Aug 17, 2012 05:10PM It's a sad day when a random typical 'feel good' story like what used to get posted to Myspace is being dissected for being too controlling
Kathryn Aug 17, 2012 05:11PM over what young girls want to grow up to be. I'm pretty sure that no matter how far off the attempted message the author got, it's clear
eat a dick Aug 17, 2012 05:11PM ...who's talking about controlling, i'm saying it made me feel uncomfortable
♡misandry Aug 17, 2012 05:11PM it's not like people are obligated to just automatically feel good about such a touchy topic
Kathryn Aug 17, 2012 05:11PM what they were TRYING to impart on the reader. Authors use things that make them feel a certain way in order to help the readers do the
Kathryn Aug 17, 2012 05:12PM lol O f course not, but when I saw this reblogged on tumblr I didn't immediately enter a discussion about how offended I was, I ignored it
Kathryn Aug 17, 2012 05:12PM I just don't see why others don't do the same, since the message was well-intentioned. If you have an issue contacting the writer might
♡misandry Aug 17, 2012 05:12PM well, yes, but that unto itself is saying people have to be emotional in the exact way the author intends. look, i'm not saying the author's
Bowler Hat Guy Aug 17, 2012 05:13PM good intentions don't make up for everything. and I don't know how you would contact an anonymous
Bowler Hat Guy Aug 17, 2012 05:13PM it could just be some person who saw something mean on the internet and decided to write up a story, that happens more often then not
♡misandry Aug 17, 2012 05:13PM a topic like this has always got to be a conversation because many people will have many feelings.
♡misandry Aug 17, 2012 05:14PM it is a feel good story, but about the weighted topic of suicide, and how we grieve. not a little have a nice day
♡misandry Aug 17, 2012 05:16PM yeah idk I could see where you were coming from cos i felt a bit the same way, lol
eat a dick Aug 17, 2012 05:17PM but yeah uh... i'm not trying to deny the basic message in the story, just that the way it's written didn't really lend itself to pulling on
eat a dick Aug 17, 2012 05:18PM my heartstrings. i'm sure it does with most people, good for them, that's fine too, have at it. it kind of creeps me out.
♡misandry Aug 17, 2012 05:18PM I guess my initial reaction was that, while I understood the author's intention, the amount of projecting felt weirdly
eat a dick Aug 17, 2012 05:19PM i guess it's got a lot to do with, i don't like people assuming shit about me, i would prefer it if others didn't do the same?
shenanigans Aug 17, 2012 05:27PM that makes sense. and like someone else said, I also felt it was exploitative. The good intent was there but it was written in a way that
♡misandry Aug 17, 2012 05:27PM I don't want anyone to self-harm or kill themselves. I think we should definitely encourage people to live, and that things will get better
shenanigans Aug 17, 2012 05:28PM If I were to rewrite that paragraph with the same level of emphasise on my own interests, it would come out sounding like "they'll never
♡misandry Aug 17, 2012 05:28PM well, I guess I also don't think people who are contemplating suicide should have it held over their heads how sad it'll make
shenanigans Aug 17, 2012 05:28PM know their first day of art school, or develop a love of typography, or make their first portfolio". Doesn't that sound strange?
NexusChampion Aug 17, 2012 05:31PM I've noticed it not only with my friends but with complete strangers
Dr Wholittle Aug 17, 2012 06:51PM it makes me sad to see that within the first 20 comments people are already nitpicking this for the authors choice of events in ones life -
Dr Wholittle Aug 17, 2012 06:51PM as opposed to celebrating the message that any douche on the internet that tells someone to kill themselves is just that - a douche
♡misandry Aug 17, 2012 06:55PM you don't have to be an unusually compassionate human being to think a douche on the Internet who tells you to kill yourself
♡misandry Aug 17, 2012 06:55PM so it's natural that the way the author is saying things is being questioned, beyond that
Dr Wholittle Aug 17, 2012 06:58PM i agree the message should be obvious - but were on the internet...the place where compassion is almost a myth and cruelty is sadly the norm
A Jet Black ♥ Aug 17, 2012 07:00PM by turning to her when she came to say goodbye to me for the last time and out of the blue saying
A Jet Black ♥ Aug 17, 2012 07:00PM "did you know when you die, it means you go away forever?" when I was three.
A Jet Black ♥ Aug 17, 2012 07:00PM I have no memory of it at all, but she insists it happened and tells it in great detail
A Jet Black ♥ Aug 17, 2012 07:10PM it was really chilling to be told I was kind of uncomfortable at first
A Jet Black ♥ Aug 17, 2012 07:23PM so I am now a firm believer that kids do say random shit at convenient times.
ᴡʀᴀᴛʜɪᴏɴ。 Aug 18, 2012 12:05AM i feel like people are missing the point by nitpicking over the choices of lifestyle the author mentioned. those choices are just some of
ᴡʀᴀᴛʜɪᴏɴ。 Aug 18, 2012 12:05AM the MANY things the girl COULD have done had she been encouraged rather than discouraged.
ᴡʀᴀᴛʜɪᴏɴ。 Aug 18, 2012 12:06AM but since she died, she can't do any of that, she can't grow up or be whatever she might have wanted to be.
ᴡʀᴀᴛʜɪᴏɴ。 Aug 18, 2012 12:06AM and that's why it's important to remember that words CAN have an impact.
ƒℓуιηg Aug 18, 2012 12:08AM Just because we may disagree with some aspects of it does not mean we're missing the point, thank you.
ᴡʀᴀᴛʜɪᴏɴ。 Aug 18, 2012 12:10AM i just feel that the message is being lost because what i think are unimportant details are being focused on.
Bowler Hat Guy Aug 18, 2012 12:10AM I think everyone got the point. Just not everyone liked the way it was delivered. Obviously the details aren't unimportant to everyone.
Bowler Hat Guy Aug 18, 2012 12:11AM it was more than simply "be nice or what you say could potentially push someone over the edge etc..."
w-в-х Aug 18, 2012 03:27AM Here's an idea, why don't you fucking assholes stop projecting your lack of interest in having children on this plurk already?
sᴏ ᴅᴀᴍɴ ᴅᴏɴᴇ Aug 18, 2012 03:27AM Well, there goes the civility that was applauded a little while further up the plurk
sᴏ ᴅᴀᴍɴ ᴅᴏɴᴇ Aug 18, 2012 03:27AM It's kind of funny that you're complaining about them projecting when people were theorizing that the writer of this was projecting
chocodicks Aug 18, 2012 03:29AM If the post had said "Never go to college" no one would have replied with "What if she didn't want to go to college!"
A Jet Black ♥ Aug 18, 2012 03:31AM I don't know that's another assumed future that is no longer the standard
chocodicks Aug 18, 2012 03:32AM Yeah so it's not like we can be sure, if we tried to set something like that up now I'm sure someone would say it out of spite.
sᴏ ᴅᴀᴍɴ ᴅᴏɴᴇ Aug 18, 2012 03:32AM you can still agree with something like this which points out "this person had future" and still say "you know, there's something sketchy
chocodicks Aug 18, 2012 03:33AM I really can't bring myself to care about that part as someone who this message is really helpful to soooo
sᴏ ᴅᴀᴍɴ ᴅᴏɴᴇ Aug 18, 2012 03:33AM There has never been this pressure for women to just go to college, BUT
ᴡʀᴀᴛʜɪᴏɴ。 Aug 18, 2012 03:33AM how is it sketchy, though? like, how is it legitimately sketchy when it's just common examples of what someone MIGHT do in their future
ᴡʀᴀᴛʜɪᴏɴ。 Aug 18, 2012 03:34AM sure, the girl might not have chosen that path, but it's a path and the writer likely just chose the one they're more familiar with
#HANNIBAL NO Aug 18, 2012 03:34AM i think that to say "this part is sketchy" or "you're erasing x" or "you're enforcing the stereotype" or whatever on this message is really
ᴡʀᴀᴛʜɪᴏɴ。 Aug 18, 2012 03:34AM but the writer isn't implying ANYTHING like that re: women are worthless if they don't have kids
Kira J. Lane Aug 18, 2012 03:35AM Also, the author was implying the girl might want to travel or have an education.
chocodicks Aug 18, 2012 03:35AM Here's my thoughts on this. Maybe they should have said something else I DON'T REALLY CARE.
ᴡʀᴀᴛʜɪᴏɴ。 Aug 18, 2012 03:36AM what's being focused on is just ONE particular part and that part in the grand scheme of the message is UNIMPORTANT.
chocodicks Aug 18, 2012 03:36AM But I will say that nitpicking an uplifting anti-suicide message is extremely counterproductive.
Kira J. Lane Aug 18, 2012 03:36AM I can understand having a beef with how there's a lot of pressure to do certain things, but the writer just picked a nice broad spectrum.
chocodicks Aug 18, 2012 03:36AM Because if someone has read it and had their mood altered for the better and then scrolled down to read all of this bickering about wording
Kira J. Lane Aug 18, 2012 03:37AM Not just the family-oriented get-married-make-babies stuff. She hit on education and life-enriching things like travel too, which
Kira J. Lane Aug 18, 2012 03:38AM So I kinda think that while it's irritating to be reminded of stuff that makes you feel a bit pressured, those things are part of a the
Kira J. Lane Aug 18, 2012 03:38AM realm of human experience for many people. And the author just seemed to be listing some general experiences rather than just emphasizing
Bowler Hat Guy Aug 18, 2012 03:39AM now, now... calling people dicks and assholes isn't what we're 'sposed to do.
Kira J. Lane Aug 18, 2012 03:40AM I also think, as someone who once attempted suicide, it's sort of irritating to have a message like this completely hijacked
Bowler Hat Guy Aug 18, 2012 03:40AM and they totally put emphasis on mawige and kids and etc... I don't care who wrote it or why, but it's still problematic to depict girls as
Bowler Hat Guy Aug 18, 2012 03:40AM did you read all the comments? people actually made good points about it.
chocodicks Aug 18, 2012 03:40AM Nobody did portray girls as mainly wanting marriage though, please be so kind as to show which part of the post did that.
Kira J. Lane Aug 18, 2012 03:41AM I mean, not all parents would miss their kid, you know. Some parents are abusive. you don't see me hijacking this whole thing to point out
Kira J. Lane Aug 18, 2012 03:41AM that emphasis on happy nuclear families is problematic when many people are abused.
Bowler Hat Guy Aug 18, 2012 03:41AM marriage in a white dress and "traditional" etc. and kids, that's mostly what they wrote about. yes?
chocodicks Aug 18, 2012 03:42AM I also think, as someone who once attempted suicide, it's sort of irritating to have a message like this completely hijacked
Kira J. Lane Aug 18, 2012 03:42AM Those are things women are NOT usually pressured to do and are sometimes discouraged to do
chocodicks Aug 18, 2012 03:43AM In fact, you want to know what my thought process was upon seeing this Plurk?
Kira J. Lane Aug 18, 2012 03:43AM The OP hit a lot of general experiences and had a balance of the stereotypical ones (that many women still want to have) but also
Bowler Hat Guy Aug 18, 2012 03:44AM dude, the emphasized the traditional role of women more than anything else, talking about marriage and kids and baby. and also sex
Kira J. Lane Aug 18, 2012 03:44AM I do get the complaints about societal pressures but crikey. There's a time and a place
chocodicks Aug 18, 2012 03:45AM Telling people their life has meaning and they shouldn't end it all? HDU NOT PHRASE IT EXACTLY THE WAY I WOULD HAVE.
Bowler Hat Guy Aug 18, 2012 03:45AM but that also goes along with the whole "get married have family" thing
chocodicks Aug 18, 2012 03:45AM No, you know what they emphasized more than anything else? NOT FUCKING KILLING YOURSELF.
w-в-х Aug 18, 2012 03:45AM haha, oh man. Really kpolil: and heartshapedcats: thank you guys for being brilliant rational people.
Bowler Hat Guy Aug 18, 2012 03:45AM people already gave good reason for having some issues with the thing, whoever wrote it, whether it was sincere or true
ᴡʀᴀᴛʜɪᴏɴ。 Aug 18, 2012 03:45AM sun_cosmos: but why is using a traditional role a bad thing? yes, if the writer said the girl should ONLY do that, yeah, it would be
Bowler Hat Guy Aug 18, 2012 03:45AM or trying to spread awareness. then other people come along and call them assholes, like they didn't even pay attention
ᴡʀᴀᴛʜɪᴏɴ。 Aug 18, 2012 03:46AM but the writer wasn't doing anything like that. they were just using one example to emphasis a point.
ᴡʀᴀᴛʜɪᴏɴ。 Aug 18, 2012 03:46AM by assuming the author intended to emphasis traditional gender roles, the main message is being shunted aside
Bowler Hat Guy Aug 18, 2012 03:46AM they were projecting. You do realize that some person could have just made this up, right? whoever anon is.
ᴡʀᴀᴛʜɪᴏɴ。 Aug 18, 2012 03:47AM how can you say they're projecting when you know nothing about the author
ᴡʀᴀᴛʜɪᴏɴ。 Aug 18, 2012 03:47AM how do you know you're not the one projecting your own feelings onto the message?
Kira J. Lane Aug 18, 2012 03:48AM I mean the people arguing with youat least in my case I definitely understand and empathize with people who get upset over society
Bowler Hat Guy Aug 18, 2012 03:48AM seriously? did you read what has actually been said like... idk 100 comments ago?
ᴡʀᴀᴛʜɪᴏɴ。 Aug 18, 2012 03:48AM you're taking offense to something meant in good faith and to be uplifting simply because of one specific example
Kira J. Lane Aug 18, 2012 03:48AM There are other aspects of my life where I have to deal with that, I have friends who deal with that, and people have made good points about
ᴡʀᴀᴛʜɪᴏɴ。 Aug 18, 2012 03:49AM the author is in no way suggesting that all girls should get married and have kids
ᴡʀᴀᴛʜɪᴏɴ。 Aug 18, 2012 03:49AM an example is made to emphasize she no longer has a future because of the words someone used
Kira J. Lane Aug 18, 2012 03:49AM And sometimes people do hijack shit for their own complaints that irk them
ᴡʀᴀᴛʜɪᴏɴ。 Aug 18, 2012 03:49AM and that example just happens to be one that is more common. and not necessarily a bad thing.
Kira J. Lane Aug 18, 2012 03:49AM And sometimes they assume too much about the person writing something.
chocodicks Aug 18, 2012 03:49AM Should I unload my gender issues and lack of desire to have children all over a 121xreplurked post? Then would you take me seriously?
ᴡʀᴀᴛʜɪᴏɴ。 Aug 18, 2012 03:49AM some women want to get married and have kids and it doesn't mean they're misogynistic or anything like that
ᴡʀᴀᴛʜɪᴏɴ。 Aug 18, 2012 03:50AM there's nothing wrong with a lifestyle like that, just like there's nothing wrong with one that's different
Kira J. Lane Aug 18, 2012 03:50AM If she'd made it all childfree oriented I still would have gotten the same message from it.
chocodicks Aug 18, 2012 03:50AM No, laundry. Women can make whatever choices they want, as long as they're the choices sun_cosmos approves of!
Kira J. Lane Aug 18, 2012 03:51AM And I'd be criticizing about the people complaining over it not mentioning children. Doesn't matter either way.
ᴡʀᴀᴛʜɪᴏɴ。 Aug 18, 2012 03:51AM in the end, the point is that whatever future the girl wanted, she won't have because of the words of others. and THAT'S what we should be
Kira J. Lane Aug 18, 2012 03:51AM She just chose a group of life experiences, some of them emphasizing family, some emphasizing personal growth
Kira J. Lane Aug 18, 2012 03:52AM I mean, you know when you look at it, it's just as problematic to asexuals, the emphasis on first kisses and sex.
Kira J. Lane Aug 18, 2012 03:53AM You just have to take it for what it is and realize she can't cover the whole realm of human experience in one post.
Kira J. Lane Aug 18, 2012 03:53AM And criticizing people criticizing that isn't ignoring those societal problems or the arguments made, either.
Bowler Hat Guy Aug 18, 2012 03:55AM please... the point is women shouldn't be put in a box where their future should be X and if they don't fulfill what society thinks they
chocodicks Aug 18, 2012 03:55AM The question is, do they listen to the people they're arguing with =\
Kira J. Lane Aug 18, 2012 03:56AM we're just disagreeing that someone mentioning a bunch of common and varied experiences is DOING that
Kira J. Lane Aug 18, 2012 03:56AM And about whether a post that's meant to be inspirational and is written in a fairly innocuous way is a place to hijack for that.
Chanfing Aug 18, 2012 03:57AM Clearly, the solution is never to say anything nice or inspirational, because you might offend someone
ᴡʀᴀᴛʜɪᴏɴ。 Aug 18, 2012 03:57AM a woman choosing to live a life where she gets married and has kids doesn't necessarily mean she's filling a box. it's a woman's right to
ᴡʀᴀᴛʜɪᴏɴ。 Aug 18, 2012 03:57AM choose and if you say what she chooses is wrong, you're degrading her choice.
w-в-х Aug 18, 2012 03:58AM sun_cosmos: No, the point is that you are creating a box for people to be put in because of your own hang-ups.
Bowler Hat Guy Aug 18, 2012 03:58AM They're being stereotypical, there's not even any denying that. And if people don't like stereotyping, have an issue with it, then that's
Bowler Hat Guy Aug 18, 2012 03:59AM not even unreasonable. it's not necessarily "hijacking" it's having a discussion, while still agreeing with the main poorly written message
chocodicks Aug 18, 2012 03:59AM Dude, have you ignored the part where two suicide attempt survivors have told you that hijacking this message is highly counterproductive?
chocodicks Aug 18, 2012 03:59AM Oh I'm sorry. The part where we said that "having this ~~~discussion~~~" is highly counterproductive.
ᴡʀᴀᴛʜɪᴏɴ。 Aug 18, 2012 03:59AM this plurk has been turned into a personal soapbox about gender roles, rather than focusing on what the plurk was originally about
Kira J. Lane Aug 18, 2012 04:00AM It feels sort of like you're taking something that's our issues and turning it as a chance to soapbox about your own.
chocodicks Aug 18, 2012 04:00AM If you wanted to say something you could have made your own plurk about it instead of dragging this one through the mud.
maiden fair Aug 18, 2012 04:00AM whoa, way to completely derail the original message with petty complaints about stereotypes
Bowler Hat Guy Aug 18, 2012 04:00AM ... stereotyping is always bad. it's not "creating a box" to point out that people are often put in certain roles and this can be a problem.
ᴡʀᴀᴛʜɪᴏɴ。 Aug 18, 2012 04:00AM as septim said, what should be focused on is that fact the girl has no future, regardless of what the future would be.
Kira J. Lane Aug 18, 2012 04:00AM I wouldn't really walk into a thing about gender roles and take over it and make it about depression/suicide.
maiden fair Aug 18, 2012 04:00AM seriously you could take your complaints to a plurk of your own, or your blog or whatever
chocodicks Aug 18, 2012 04:01AM Ok, good. We all are in agreement stereotyping is bad. Literally no one said otherwise.
Kira J. Lane Aug 18, 2012 04:01AM Yeah I hate stereotyping. My mom is one of those people that was told she shouldn't go to college because she was a woman
Kira J. Lane Aug 18, 2012 04:01AM She got kicked out and basically disowned for putting herself through nursing school
Bowler Hat Guy Aug 18, 2012 04:01AM other people were totally happy to have discussions about how the topic was good, but the way it was presented was problematic
Bowler Hat Guy Aug 18, 2012 04:02AM you disagreed, but you also dragged the discussion around yourself, so...
Kira J. Lane Aug 18, 2012 04:02AM It's only problematic because she mentioned things that aren't part of your life experience.
w-в-х Aug 18, 2012 04:02AM It's not stereotyping to lay down a series of experiences that cover a broad range of lifestyle choices, and to include among those choices
Kira J. Lane Aug 18, 2012 04:03AM But she also mentioned a couple of things that apply to a wide cross-section of people
ᴡʀᴀᴛʜɪᴏɴ。 Aug 18, 2012 04:03AM again, you're focusing way too much on the marriage/kids part and ignoring the rest of the message
Kira J. Lane Aug 18, 2012 04:04AM You're even ignoring the parts that are diametrically opposed to problematic stereotypes of women being in the home like travel an education
chocodicks Aug 18, 2012 04:04AM tbh I only brought up my own mental health issues because it seemed like you weren't getting how harmful this derailment was.
Bowler Hat Guy Aug 18, 2012 04:04AM It doesn't matter if it's part of my life experience or not. It's portraying a tired old viewpoint that women are all about getting married
chocodicks Aug 18, 2012 04:04AM I thought maybe someone speaking from personal experience would help. GUESS I WAS WRONG.
w-в-х Aug 18, 2012 04:04AM and to call it stereotyping and get all up in arms about it is harmful to the cause of REAL equality.
maiden fair Aug 18, 2012 04:04AM yes it is petty, obviously it's not going to apply to everyone. i'm sure the author knows that. we all know that. except you.
chocodicks Aug 18, 2012 04:04AM sun_cosmos: BZZZT WRONG. The post never said anything about marrying a dude.
Kira J. Lane Aug 18, 2012 04:04AM Also uh. You know. I kinda think people who have dealt with suicide have a bit more of a right to talk about their experiences in a plurk
ᴡʀᴀᴛʜɪᴏɴ。 Aug 18, 2012 04:05AM haha yeah, i like how it's being completely ignored that the white dress she could have worn could've been in the marriage to another woman
Kira J. Lane Aug 18, 2012 04:06AM I liked how it's being ignored that it mentioned love and sex when some are aromantic and asexual
Bowler Hat Guy Aug 18, 2012 04:06AM I'm not the only one who brought up good points as to why the way this whole thing is portrayed is a problem.
Kira J. Lane Aug 18, 2012 04:06AM I mean no matter what it emphasized some things that are not part of some people's life experience
chocodicks Aug 18, 2012 04:06AM Let's change the subject to that. Why did you assume heterosexual marriage, hm?
Bowler Hat Guy Aug 18, 2012 04:08AM You don't think they were emphasizing marriage to a dude? They painted a pretty heteronormative viewpoint. But, hey, yeah. Maybe the dad
Kira J. Lane Aug 18, 2012 04:08AM I do think though that sometimes a spade is just a spade. You have to look at whole context.
Bowler Hat Guy Aug 18, 2012 04:08AM could have walked his daughter down the aisle and she could have married a lady.
Kira J. Lane Aug 18, 2012 04:08AM And I think if the OP had JUST listed marriage/kids etc. That'd be one thing.
Kira J. Lane Aug 18, 2012 04:09AM But travel, sex, and education are actually something women are pressured AGAINST doing
chocodicks Aug 18, 2012 04:09AM If nothing else you could delete this and repost with comments disabled.
Bowler Hat Guy Aug 18, 2012 04:09AM and people who have dealt with suicide are better equipped to talk about this issue. but that doesn't mean nobody else can talk about the
chocodicks Aug 18, 2012 04:10AM Are you unfamiliar with Tumblr? The part you were complaining about wasn't the part that was anonymous.
w-в-х Aug 18, 2012 04:10AM ...I've got $20 bucks that says Argyle has shut down a dude for trying to talk feminisim at least once.
ᴡʀᴀᴛʜɪᴏɴ。 Aug 18, 2012 04:11AM automatically assuming that things like her marriage and such would be heterosexual is more heternormative than the post itself, which is
ᴡʀᴀᴛʜɪᴏɴ。 Aug 18, 2012 04:11AM vague enough for people to assume, if they wanted, that the girl chose to marry another girl, etc
Kira J. Lane Aug 18, 2012 04:11AM We were silly to think it wasn't just a general message of goodwill sent to people like us.
Bowler Hat Guy Aug 18, 2012 04:12AM seriously, the discussion was decent until people came in claiming everyone was an asshole
Bowler Hat Guy Aug 18, 2012 04:12AM yeah, you could assume. but call me crazy, but I doubt they were talking about anything other than a het marriage.
Chanfing Aug 18, 2012 04:12AM Everything has to be an argument about someone being oppressed. Everything.
chocodicks Aug 18, 2012 04:13AM The post didn't mention the girl having a husband or marrying a man. Those words never appeared.
BONK Aug 18, 2012 04:13AM if all you get from this is that "omg not all women want babies" you are obtuse beyond all help
chocodicks Aug 18, 2012 04:13AM I like how you keep not answering us when we ask why you assume that.
w-в-х Aug 18, 2012 04:13AM But yeah, all I see here is some very convincing arguments for people who got all the hell up in arms because the author's words didn't
Chanfing Aug 18, 2012 04:13AM Unless you say something so generic that it can't possibly refer to any one group, or so specific that it encompasses the entire spectrum
ṧƴḱεṧ Aug 18, 2012 04:14AM Come on guys please, let's all accept that everyone views things differently, this is more than clear. But there's a time and place for
stetsonsarecool Aug 18, 2012 04:14AM wow I remember reading this and thinking I'm so glad that people on plurk know how to disagree maturely.
ṧƴḱεṧ Aug 18, 2012 04:14AM discussions like this, I understand the desire to have discussions, but please.
w-в-х Aug 18, 2012 04:14AM conform to a very specific "progressive" model of what women should and shouldn't want to do with their lives are gigantic, raging assholes
w-в-х Aug 18, 2012 04:14AM who are missing the entire point of this formerly positive and life-affirming plurk.
Chanfing Aug 18, 2012 04:15AM It feels like this is a thing that has happened recently. People are so quick to get butthurt and call oppression.
stetsonsarecool Aug 18, 2012 04:15AM going to keep this short: As someone who has struggled, I think all concerns are valid. Not everyone will react to this the same way, and
stetsonsarecool Aug 18, 2012 04:15AM as a matter of fact, even I was slightly put off. And if it's so disheartening to read the comments, then you have just as much a choice
Bowler Hat Guy Aug 18, 2012 04:15AM please, people can agree that a message against suicide is good, but if it's also loaded with gender stereotypes it's sorta bad
stetsonsarecool Aug 18, 2012 04:15AM not to take minutes and minutes to read them just as much as they had a choice on whether or not to post them.
chocodicks Aug 18, 2012 04:16AM stetsonsarecool: I'd like to point out that it's impossible to know what the comments are going to look like without reading them.
Chanfing Aug 18, 2012 04:16AM sun_cosmos: Seems to me you're looking pretty hard for reasons to be offended.
Kira J. Lane Aug 18, 2012 04:17AM That those are things women should be encourage to have in their lives?
stetsonsarecool Aug 18, 2012 04:17AM It's impossible, but it's not anyone's fault if you don't know by now a post at this level is going to have some commenters who take issue
ᴡʀᴀᴛʜɪᴏɴ。 Aug 18, 2012 04:17AM i'm sorry, but the examples given are only "stereotyping" if you look at it from a heteronormative point of view
eat a dick Aug 18, 2012 04:18AM some people are made uncomfortable by the examples given by the writer/assumptions the writer made. some people aren't.
ᴡʀᴀᴛʜɪᴏɴ。 Aug 18, 2012 04:18AM marriage does not automatically mean a hetero marriage. having kids could mean insemination
eat a dick Aug 18, 2012 04:19AM if you can assume people don't assume heteronormative, even in progressive/liberal views
Pie Aug 18, 2012 04:19AM Someone might have already said this, I am not about to go back and reread all of this but
Kira J. Lane Aug 18, 2012 04:19AM I think the reason there's fighting is that people get all offended up in things so often anymore that even if you agree with the basic
Kira J. Lane Aug 18, 2012 04:19AM issues they take issues with, the reaction is kneejerk kicking them in the face
ṧƴḱεṧ Aug 18, 2012 04:19AM I personally disagree with gender roles. But I chose not to be offended because that is not the point of a message against suicide.
Kira J. Lane Aug 18, 2012 04:20AM I agree 100% completely about stereotypes and how harmful they are to women
Pie Aug 18, 2012 04:20AM It strikes me this whole conversation would not have sprung up if the example was not a woman. Kinda weird.
Kira J. Lane Aug 18, 2012 04:20AM But I am so goddamn sick of seeing every single discussion made about that
вuввlєgum rσck Aug 18, 2012 04:20AM you can enjoy something while finding it problematic. why didn't the discussion end there?
eat a dick Aug 18, 2012 04:20AM Jaydeis: if the example wasn't a woman chances are the writer wouldn'
вuввlєgum rσck Aug 18, 2012 04:20AM why is there 500 comments of people basically saying the same shit? intentions don't make a message okay. but the message overall
The Gentleman Aug 18, 2012 04:21AM I don't care what anyone's offense is to it, or if they're offended at all
Bowler Hat Guy Aug 18, 2012 04:21AM if someone hadn't called everyone assholes who had actual thought out things to say about the damn thing
вuввlєgum rσck Aug 18, 2012 04:22AM this plurk is legitimately amazing. stop. stop! it's fine to be uncomfortable with it and point out why.
Bowler Hat Guy Aug 18, 2012 04:22AM and society takes a heteronormative viewpoint, predominantly, it's basically hard to escape it, though it would be nice to
chocodicks Aug 18, 2012 04:22AM One person called people assholes. You latched onto that and are acting like everyone disagreeing with you did so.
The Gentleman Aug 18, 2012 04:22AM It's just killing me that I made this as a feel good, "realize that what you're saying could cause harm" plurk
вuввlєgum rσck Aug 18, 2012 04:23AM p sure we get the problems with the assumptions in the message. p sure that's been hashed out 10000 times already.
Kira J. Lane Aug 18, 2012 04:24AM I'm tearing into their opinions. Never said a word against them as a person.
The Gentleman Aug 18, 2012 04:24AM unless you have a new point to make, ti's redundant to keep going back and repeating the same thing over and over again
вuввlєgum rσck Aug 18, 2012 04:25AM seriously. whatever you need to tear into has been torn into. anyone who doesn't get something by now?
Bowler Hat Guy Aug 18, 2012 04:25AM I didn't say anyone was an asshole. yeah, one person came in and said people having a civil discussion were assholes. on a post about being
вuввlєgum rσck Aug 18, 2012 04:25AM i think the point has been made. and then driven into the ground.
chocodicks Aug 18, 2012 04:25AM "This hijacking is hurtful" "Yeah but stereotypes are bad" "We agree but your hijacking is hurtful" "Why dont you think stereotypes are bad"
The Gentleman Aug 18, 2012 04:26AM this is legit making me second guess replurking feel good things adn
вuввlєgum rσck Aug 18, 2012 04:27AM well, i guess it really just means you have to examine the thing you share.
вuввlєgum rσck Aug 18, 2012 04:27AM but sometimes people will disagree. you might not be okay with why they're disagreeing, but no matter how innocent the feel good
вuввlєgum rσck Aug 18, 2012 04:27AM it's really just a judgment call, and adding disclaimers if you feel it's necessary.
вuввlєgum rσck Aug 18, 2012 04:28AM but when you post things for general public discussion, you do implicitly ok this sort of discussion, and it's not a BAD thing by any
вuввlєgum rσck Aug 18, 2012 04:28AM Well, yes. Thin-- oh, don't demean the people who were offended. They had a right.
вuввlєgum rσck Aug 18, 2012 04:29AM It shouldn't've gone on as long as it did, but they weren't wrong to say as much.
Kira J. Lane Aug 18, 2012 04:29AM And someone will get upset that stuffed lions have not been adequately represented.
The Gentleman Aug 18, 2012 04:29AM I posted a feel good coke commercial once and some people l said it was just a ploy for coke to make money
Kira J. Lane Aug 18, 2012 04:29AM Part and parcel of human nature that people get passionate about the things that matter to them.
вuввlєgum rσck Aug 18, 2012 04:29AM corporate feel-goods are always going to have people going "no u."
Pie Aug 18, 2012 04:30AM You were the one who posted the coke commercial? So you've plurked two things that made me smile, then!
Kira J. Lane Aug 18, 2012 04:30AM The problem here I think is the people passionate about social justice clashing slightly with the folks that care only about the issue of
The Gentleman Aug 18, 2012 04:30AM I don't know, from now on I'm making a disclaimer to keep negativity in your own plurks and hoping people can be trusted to do so
вuввlєgum rσck Aug 18, 2012 04:30AM Transmutedself: you didn't do wrong. keep doin what you do, imo, especially if you enjoy it.
вuввlєgum rσck Aug 18, 2012 04:31AM you obviously made a bunch of people happy! aside the discussion.
вuввlєgum rσck Aug 18, 2012 04:31AM but you have to recognize that people will want to discuss. that's the risk you take when you open the floor to discussion.
Kira J. Lane Aug 18, 2012 04:31AM It's not a bad disclaimer to have. I actually would have had no problems with people discussing how they felt stuff was problematic. Just...
The Gentleman Aug 18, 2012 04:32AM I mind discussion that dissolves into insults and copy and paste responses
вuввlєgum rσck Aug 18, 2012 04:32AM lol yes. i've had open discussions before and tried to direct them. i think allowing discussion to a point is a good thing!
Pie Aug 18, 2012 04:32AM Yes, well this is a giant plurk. The system is probably struggling to handle it at this point.
вuввlєgum rσck Aug 18, 2012 04:32AM you can choose to be a moderator. don't feel obligated to be one! but if that is what you wanted to do, you of course can. : )
вuввlєgum rσck Aug 18, 2012 04:33AM i think you're doing good stuff. just critically examine the things you post, toss disclaimers if necessary, and minitor.
Kira J. Lane Aug 18, 2012 04:34AM And I can say, honestly, if you had a disclaimer and what I wanted to say didn't fit what you wanted the discussion to be about...
Kira J. Lane Aug 18, 2012 04:34AM I'd scarper and talk about what I wanted to talk about elsewhere. A lot of plurkers are willing to do that.
The Gentleman Aug 18, 2012 04:38AM if that doesn't work I might just move on to responses disabled plurks
ilovesatellites Aug 18, 2012 05:25AM One is that -I- think its offensive to assume that marriage is only for heteronormative couples.
ilovesatellites Aug 18, 2012 05:26AM Perhaps she would have walked down the aisle to a woman that the two FOUGHT to have marriage rights in their state.
ilovesatellites Aug 18, 2012 05:27AM I know gays, asexuals, bi's, polys, etc and its not what society wants in the least but many of them yearn for companionship.
ilovesatellites Aug 18, 2012 05:28AM If we're going to assume, please take in ALL angles of assumption. To think only 'normies' or straights want marriage and kids >
ilovesatellites Aug 18, 2012 05:29AM or that marriage and family is only a 'societal ideal' discounts the many LGBTAs that are fighting that very notion.
ilovesatellites Aug 18, 2012 05:31AM Instead of Plurk and arm chair activism - lets change this world for the better. If you took an hour tonight on this thread, take an hour to
ilovesatellites Aug 18, 2012 05:31AM volunteer to a crisis hotline. Take a hour to clean the streets your friends walk in your town. Discussion is good and action is better.
ilovesatellites Aug 18, 2012 05:32AM If you have strong ideals - stand up for them. Find a way to make a difference by giving back. I am a huge activist and am happy to help
ilovesatellites Aug 18, 2012 05:33AM ANYONE find a way to make a change in their world - socially anxious, in a rural area, you name it. We CAN make a difference, I promise.
Bowler Hat Guy Aug 18, 2012 06:04AM of course it's offensive that when people speak of marriage it is assumed they mean het marriage. But that is what they mean.
Bowler Hat Guy Aug 18, 2012 06:05AM It is rather presumptive to assume that when people post online during their downtime they never do anything else.
ilovesatellites Aug 18, 2012 06:08AM I don't think the majority of people ANYWHERE online are as active in their communities. For many thats because of not knowing where to
ilovesatellites Aug 18, 2012 06:08AM start. Thats why I never said they ARE lazy I said I challenge everyone to go to the next step if they haven't.
ilovesatellites Aug 18, 2012 06:08AM Many of my friends just dont know where to go IRL etc and fall into the pitfall of using the internet as a medium to express themselves.
ilovesatellites Aug 18, 2012 06:09AM This will OFTEN lead to frustration as there's little outcome to feel productive over.
ilovesatellites Aug 18, 2012 06:09AM Comments on Plurk are good but helping educate others, ourselves, and getting out there in some fashion does help make changes int he world.
ilovesatellites Aug 18, 2012 06:10AM If everyone here is doing that then more power to them all! Thats awesome
ilovesatellites Aug 18, 2012 06:10AM But for those who arent, I'm still standing by my statement and my offer to help those who feel trapped by their town, the internet, etc
The Gentleman Aug 18, 2012 06:13AM You're at the point now of stating opinions beyond generalization.
The Gentleman Aug 18, 2012 06:14AM 'but that is what they mean' is basically stating that anyone that ever speaks of marriage always means between one man and one woman.
The Gentleman Aug 18, 2012 06:14AM I've tried not to get involved in anyone else's arguments but that really draws a line, for me.
Bowler Hat Guy Aug 18, 2012 06:17AM It is what they mean 9/10 especially in instances where they talk about all other "traditional values" that go along with that ideal
Bowler Hat Guy Aug 18, 2012 06:18AM I'm not about to hold out hope or give them the benefit of the doubt or be overly optimistic that they are being inclusive of everyone
Bowler Hat Guy Aug 18, 2012 06:18AM I also assume they mean marriage between two people and not polygamy
The Gentleman Aug 18, 2012 06:20AM and you're in your right to assume whatever you want, that's fine with me I didn't get into that debate for a reason
вuввlєgum rσck Aug 18, 2012 06:55AM wow it's like no one understood the point of "everything you said has been said already and you're being redundant"
Bowler Hat Guy Aug 18, 2012 06:56AM You can't wish bias away. Discussion can be a strong force for change and action. Emphasis on <i>can</i>, obviously.
вuввlєgum rσck Aug 18, 2012 07:07AM ..... what did what i just said have to do with bias..... also, seriously. shh. it's been said. we get it.
The Gentleman Aug 18, 2012 07:25AM No it was directed at me for saying that not everyone referring to marriage is speaking of heteronorm marriages
вuввlєgum rσck Aug 18, 2012 07:26AM sun_cosmos: (also psst. do you know how to do actual plurk italics? html doesn't work here.)
Bowler Hat Guy Aug 18, 2012 07:33AM yes, I swear the only time it didn't work before was when I put in an extra slash idk
Venonononono Aug 18, 2012 07:51AM as a girl struggling with suicidal thoughts and stuff myself...... I don't think the original message was lost or dilluted.
Venonononono Aug 18, 2012 07:51AM And I think it will still do things because even if it can be worded better?
The Gentleman Aug 18, 2012 08:02AM I am glad for everyone that appreciates it, so thank you for the comment!
ѕeer oғ voιd Aug 18, 2012 08:06AM I can't even express my feelings on this. And it hurts because people need to see this to understand and I know some folks won't but
ѕeer oғ voιd Aug 18, 2012 08:25AM Just like, I am going to hold on to the hope that one day people who tell others these things- will wake up. And even if they don't go out
ѕeer oғ voιd Aug 18, 2012 08:25AM to help prevent things like this- they learned that its a bad things to do.
вuввlєgum rσck Aug 18, 2012 08:01PM desidesidesi: Let's not. The concerns were legitimate. The discussion went on too far/too long, but it wasn't an invalid discussion.
Harpie Jar Aug 18, 2012 09:04PM Transmutedself I'm really sorry the comments and resulting discussion went so far off the mark. This is a really great plurk, and the
The Gentleman Aug 18, 2012 10:08PM I am really glad that despite the comments people are still enjoying this