| Washu | They've tried it before. I mean... letting teens and adults MINGLE. It doesnt work |
| Smiley | is | half-ecstatic half-D-: . I'm half-ecstatic because that'd mean I'll finally be on a normally-sized grid, but also half-D-: because I know... |
| Caliah | thinks | O_O |
| Kalli | WHAT... THE... F***?! Hey Feds... let's just close this now! |
| Trini | heard about this a few weeks ago... don't know what the 'logic' is in that... |
| ❤Delora❤ | says | Nooooo DONT DO IT DONT DO IT |
| ❤Delora❤ | says | There's something scary about having TG'ers being able to get into places like.. Neva Naughty. |
| Smiley | is | ...you guys would hate it. (Sorry for the delay) |
| ❤Delora❤ | says | It wouldn't be safe. We'd have to either a) sanitize the grid to make it family-friendly, or SL would become the new pedo-hotspot. |
| Washu | I just want to be somewhere, and not have to feel like I'm babysitting. Most teens really do act like children and it's exhausting |
| Smiley | says | True, true. Also, most TGers are childish, so I won't be surpriased if they make it 16+ or something. |
| CENSORED | its a VERY bad idea. the worst since a long time. |
| Nikadreamscape | I have no words. |
| Smiley | says | *surprised |
| CENSORED | wait.. what Blue??  |
| Smiley | says | True, Blue. Very, very true. |
| CENSORED | you mean, theres people under 18 on the main grid? |
| Washu | I know Blue, but I can TELL if they are teens, I really can. |
| Nikadreamscape | *Hunkers down for the incoming shitstorm* |
| Caliah | says | Teens can be very mature in comparison to some thirty year olds -- |
| CENSORED | totally!! |
| CENSORED | no im not Smiley! |
| CENSORED | i was 100% certain that the maingrid was 18+. |
| jjacek | wonders | About all the "adults" on the grid who act like children?  |
| Smiley | says | It's been like that for YEARS. Ever since CC verification was dropped. Heck, even I was there when my alt was accidentally put on the MG. |
| Washu | Kids just lie and they can get on with no check |
| ❤Delora❤ | says | No-payment-info accounts can fake their info. How many of us, before the age of 18, said "Yeah I'm 18" to gain entrance to a website? |
| Nikadreamscape | Well maybe sim owners can assign age limits to their sims, so not just anyone can go anywhere |
| Smiley | says | (Although I, (HONESTLY.) told that to LL and even asked them to move me back.) |
| CENSORED | no, that i know they could fake the information. but i meant officially. |
| Washu | And some teens are mature, but I can tell when most people are teens |
| ❤Delora❤ | says | I had to deal with a teenager recently in a Gorean RP sim who wanted to have cybersex with a Master |
| ❤Delora❤ | says | Ugh. |
| CENSORED | won't tell Shushu i'm 14 years old |
| Washu | :3 |
| A for emilia | There.com is integrated, is this where the hi you are entering a sex sim beware comes into play? |
| CENSORED | what kind of changes would be done from LL's side, Blue? do you mean age verification mandatory for all? |
| Smiley | says | I'm guessing you're going back to the PG/Mature sims way, right? |
| Washu | Most teens give it away. When they say "brb mom finished dinner" I can usually guess they are a kid. Or when they speak on voice |
| ❤Delora❤ | says | Age verification would have to become mandatory, and with an international audience it's gonna be difficult.  |
| CENSORED | oh dear... define secure? |
| Nikadreamscape | I wouldn't mind so much if the age under 18 was listed on profile |
| Washu | Or when they want to show me all their COOOOOOOOOOOOOOL Starwars stuff |
| A for emilia | wonders | how thats going to happen with disabled camera restraints you can cam into another sim |
| Washu | Nimil you dont want to show me all your coooooooool star wars stuff. You're ok. |
| Washu | Yes blue LOL |
| Smiley | says | Oh, please, people. You're overreacting. The teen grid is not that innocent. I ran into a leaked sex bed about once out of 100 houses... |
| Smiley | says | ...when I was active. |
| CENSORED | i see what you mean Blue but wouldnt it be difficult regarding actual technical limitations? like someone mentioned camera constrains |
| ❤Delora❤ | says | Remember, ageplay was outlawed on the grid so child-porn wouldn't happen. introducing teens to MG? More child porn. |
| Smiley | says | Yep. That too. So much swearing in there I'd say we're a 16+ Brooklyn grid. |
| Washu | I had a friend who is 17 sign up for teen SL and not 5 minutes in he saw a penis car he says. |
| Nikadreamscape | Well there surely will be some adult only areas.. |
| Washu | I dont think they are innocent, I just dont want to babysit u.u |
| A for emilia | lol i've worked with teens most of my adult life, yes most of them are a lot more mature then people think |
| jjacek | thinks | y'all are overreacting. Need I remind you that Jesse Malthus was a teen on the main grid? More mature than 95% of adults.  |
| Smiley | says | Yep. Also, I have friends which, ever since I registered for SL, were completely mature. Take Daniel Voyager, Will Szymborska and others |
| Smiley | says | as examples. |
| ❤Delora❤ | says | Question: WHY does Phil want to integrate the grids? |
| Nikadreamscape | I'm not concerned so much about maturity. I'm concerned about how many 14 year olds will say they are 25 and go into sex places, then |
| Washu | I dont mind mature teens, I know plenty of people who were under 18 when they started and only said so later on |
| Nikadreamscape | potentially get people there in legal trouble. And yes I know teens sneak in anyway, but at least LL states that everyone on main grid |
| Nikadreamscape | 18+ |
| CENSORED | agrees im very uncomfortable with a merger |
| Nikadreamscape | what if a bunch of 12 year olds go to Rougue. Will Codie be in legal trouble? |
| Nikadreamscape | this is what I'm talking about |
| Smiley | wonders | if a "Mark me as a teen publicly" would be a good or bad idea - segregation from adult or extra pedophileness? |
| Nikadreamscape | if anyone is under 18 I want to see it stated on the front page of their profile |
| Smiley | says | Unless Linden revise their "what's allowed" policies, no. |
| jjacek | says | Maybe we could make them wear a colored triangle on their jackets at all time...  (joking!) |
| CENSORED | as a mature sim owner, im a bit scared. i will need to see what LL's policies will be and act accordingly |
| Nikadreamscape | well hopefully any sims that are marked as 'mature' will block access to teen accounts |
| Washu | There are already so many teens that come to Loco Pocos. They all beg us for free avatars or for lindens |
| Smiley | says | Jacek, it's still a bit early. >_> |
| CENSORED | im just scared LL will put me in a situation where i can only welcome verified members, and loose much traffic |
| Washu | I dont want there to be a bazillion moer doing it. its tough already |
| A for emilia | my sim is mature but pretty rare anything sex wise goes on it, it's mature because of the language |
| Dream Etc. | says | Ok, so to "quarantine" mature material, we'll all be forced to give information for that age confirmation <cont'> |
| Mouse Mim | thinks | this is a bad idea. I have a 14 year old on the teen grid, I don't want her here. |
| Smiley | says | But before we merge the grids... Please fix the connection horrors from the middle east. I'm getting D/Ced on teleport. |
| ❤Delora❤ | says | Please... no. Just no. This won't 'improve' SL, it'll destroy it. The main grid is an ADULT playground. |
| Dream Etc. | says | Which in some nations is illegal, and in others, is completely unsafe to give to a company that's been hacked before... |
| A for emilia | thats one reason i left There |
| Nikadreamscape | I really can't think of any conversation an adult needs to be having with a kid on the internet. Period |
| Stephanie | asks | what difference would it make? We all know a large percentage of new signups are under 18, and the grid is full of children already |
| Smiley | says | What? I was on There for 1.5 years as a premium member. Teens weren't bad at all. In fact, 50%+ of which I've met were mature. |
| Smiley | says | Yep, you're right Mistress. |
| Ketsy | Aems, Retrology is also mature rated. The nightclub with our dancers and a skin/shape shop with bodies shown keeps us as Mature... |
| Dream Etc. | says | Absolutely, so lets make it /easier/ for children to access mature material. It's already happening, let's condone it |
| Smiley | nods. |
| Dream Etc. | says | that was sarcasm btw |
| Nikadreamscape | I think it should be up for vote |
| Ketsy | doesn't seem to have stopped anyone from coming shopping, which is the major part of the sim, |
| Smiley | says | Ketsy, that's not much of a reason to make it mature. 3D skins are not considered porn, since they're half-CGI. |
| Washu | what if parents start yelling at me because their kid bought my stuff but wasnt allowed to |
| ❤Delora❤ | says | And I kinda um... quit WoW because of the teens. |
| Washu | I will really feel like a babysitter |
| Washu | And my ban list can only go to 300 |
| A for emilia | there are puritanicals that consider naked skin to be mature, as some language etc sadly |
| Smiley | says | Oh, Blue, you have yet to see the horrors of WoW gold begging. "GOLD PLZ" shouted in chat, the world, etc. with no GMs muting them. |
| Stephanie | says | I'm not condoning it at all - it's just been made clear that the separation of children from adults is no longer a concern for LL. |
| Dream Etc. | says | Actually...by allowing it I'd imagine the "fake" nature of SL would provide great legal loopholes for the pedos |
| Sabina | I want to know who defines "Mature content" |
| Ketsy | this could really change everything, we already have to report underagers from time to time |
| Smiley | says | I suggest a "Auto-mute teen accounts" option for those not wanting to converse with teens. |
| Dream Etc. | says | Or just keep things the way they are. |
| Sabina | Technically a drawn pixel nipple on a skin is "mature" isn't it? |
| Smiley | says | Ok, people, I think I represent about 90% of the world's teens when I say this: your grid has nothing we have, would in our teen years... |
| A for emilia | its what you wouldnt feel comfortable showing your grandma/parents from what i understand |
| Smiley | says | ...than in our mature years. Yes. Gasp all you want. |
| Nikadreamscape | today, Blue? |
| Sabina | says | Blue, my pixels lurve your pixels. |
| Nikadreamscape | oh |
| Smiley | wants | to go there. It's not fair having only one side represented by 100% of the people. >.< |
| Smiley | says | OH right, I can't. *Points at big giant gate called "Honesty"* |
| Smiley | says | You betcha.  |
| Sabina | says | He won't mute, he'll just laugh, then walk out into the warm sunshine we're having |
| Smiley | says | But seriously people, there's nothing on your grid we have yet to see or will see in our early teen years. It's how today's world works. |
| Smiley | says | For some reason. |
| CENSORED | must remember to add Blue inworld... |
| Smiley | says | Lol. Or just make his own. *Cheers for WindLight* |
| CENSORED | will | bring Smiley to Dark Desires when he joins the maingrid. we will see for "seen it all before" |
| A for emilia | its also how the world worked not that long ago, ya married young, died young |
| Sabina | says | It's not about that Smiley, it's about liability. |
| Dream Etc. | says | Its about keeping /us/ as safe and comfortable as /you/ guys. |
| CENSORED | its about 9/10 of the maingrid being adult content anyways. remember, the internet id for porn! |
| CENSORED | *is |
| Nikadreamscape | exactly, Dream |
| Damo | my little brother has been on the teen grid since it started, he comes main grid on the 27th !! |
| Sabina | says | I don't doubt ya'll have seen it, but that doesn't mean there won't be the ONE teenager who gets busted by his parents..(cont) |
| Smiley | decides not to post the name. Too nasty. |
| Dream Etc. | says | I feel your pain Dami. My brother is a furry griefer.... |
| CENSORED | lol |
| Sabina | says | and his parents who freak the hell out, sue LL, or worse, rag on content creators in an epic search for billions of dollars. |
| Dream Etc. | says | We already have to worry to a certain degree if we participate in mature activities. This would make it worse, with little protection |
| Smiley | thinks | one's parents would just be mad at the teen. You don't see parents suing porn sites, are you? |
| Nikadreamscape | well as long as teens are restricted to G and PG areas, and Mature will be for us only, that would help |
| Dream Etc. | says | They can't because the sites are protected. Like SL is now. If you take that away, then yes, they could sue LL |
| CENSORED | LL is the sole manager of SL Smiley. much more easy to sue. |
| Nikadreamscape | maybe they will see ban lines or 'you don't have access to that destination' when they try to go to amature area |
| Washu | Parents do a lot of crazy things to protect their children. I'm afraid all content creators will be attacked. |
| Dream Etc. | says | Ah...back to the days where you have to buy your "naughty" bits separately...  |
| Washu | And the media will attack us, and we'll all be called pedos or something |
| Nikadreamscape | What happens if an SL escort gets a client thats a teen, now? They could go to jail in RL for that. at least if it happens now, they |
| Smiley | says | I agree, M-rated areas should be banned from teens. But right now, it's not even a grid. Even our small economy is crashing. |
| Nikadreamscape | are protected because anyone on main grid is supposed to be 18 |
| Dream Etc. | says | Exactly Nika |
| Washu | America is very extreme right now about protecting minors. |
| Washu | I think I'll have to ban them all from my islands just in CASE someone has a nipple showing somewhere |
| DaniHarrop | says | how about a scarlet letter for adults! I'll wear a tag saying "I'm an adult" with no problem..no adult tag? no access to adult stuff.. |
| Smiley | says | Washu, that won't be your fault. It's a CGI error. (Even on purpose, for all you know, it's an error. ) |
| Smiley | says | You mean a Scoot Letter? |
| Dream Etc. | says | Dani, so wait, now /we/ have to be marked on our /own/ grid? |
| Smiley | says | *Scott |
| Smiley | wonders | why it's your grid. Teen Grid = grid owned by teens. Main Grid = the main grid. (Where's the adult part?  ) |
| Smiley | wonders | *Kidding* |
| Nikadreamscape | says | The only way I can see this being somewhat bearable is if teens are banned from mature sims, and have something in their prifle |
| Nikadreamscape | says | stating that they are a teen |
| Smiley | says | Works for me! (And probably most of us!) |
| ❤Delora❤ | says | Nika, if the teens had something in their profile, that would make them a target for pedos. |
| Smiley | says | Actually, that's true. Maybe just the "Ban teen accounts from this estate" checkbox? |
| Nikadreamscape | says | I see your point, Delora. I can't think of a good way around it.. except of course, no merge!! |
| Smiley | says | Maybe a hidden marking of teen/adult for a "mute all teen accounts" option? |
| Smiley | says | (And along with that, maybe teen marking to teens who send age verification stating they're teens so they can find others?) |
| Dream Etc. | says | Pedo's would just use that to find teens too |
| Damo | How about sharing a grid but being invisible to eachother? |
| Smiley | says | Then I guess we're going to have to write an imaginary "anti-pedophile verification" system! *Starts coding* -.- |
| Smiley | says | Lol, Dami. You remind me of WoW's new phasing system which shows places in different layouts to different people. |
| Smiley | says | Maybe adapt it for SL and make it show a sex club like Hello Kitty Island Adventure? xD |
| CENSORED |  |
| Smiley | loves | the latest internet "joke-about" topic: HKIA. xD |
| Smiley | says | (Not the game, but the fact it's laughed at, lol.) |
| MrFrans | says | They have been saying that since 2006, DamienFate. |
| Smiley | says | Technically, that's how it is now, actually. We're on the same physical grid but we can't see each other or each other's sims. |
| Washu | I just want to say again that theyve tried to allow teens in before. It failed horribly. It caused a lot of bugs |
| Smiley | says | That was in the beginning. When advanced muting was a dream and ban lists were not perfect. |
| Smiley | says | Now, you (us, but you get me) have the right tools to regulate us (the teens) properly. And also to cause horrible amounts of lag. |
| Nikadreamscape | says | What sort of bugs did it cause? |
| Washu | The teens could only be on PG sims, and couldnt hear (Or see I think?) M sims. But it caused bugs so that if I were standing on a pg sim... |
| Washu | A person right next to me in an M sim couldnt hear me , or visa versa |
| Washu | The teens also were forced to have an underwear layer (Do they still? I dunno!) Which was ugly and odd. Altho not a bug |
| Damo | Haha I remember the forced underwear! |
| Washu | Well the bug was a big deal to me, anyway. And the underwear layer was such a tag, b/c of course they all went around in nothing but. |
| Smiley | says | We still have that forced underwear layer, but it's fixable by going to Advanced -> UI -> Toggle PG. |
| Smiley | says | We have custom underwear now made by designers! *Rips off avatar jeans and points excitedly at custom underwear* xD |
| Smiley | has | been in There for 1.5 years, thankyouverymuch. It's not that childish. |
| GoSpeed | says | People on the maingrid will demand that teens be identifiable and they'll ostracized eveywhere. If hang with a teen you'll be called a pedo |
| Smiley | says | Oh, then you are all pedos! Have you read the first messages? Even Blue admitted about half of the MG are teens. |
| Smiley | says | Cannot IM? Thanks but no thanks. I'll stay on my pathetic, sinking-like-a-titanic grid. |
| Washu | I think a family grid, where people can choose to go, is a nice idea. |
| GoSpeed | agrees with Washu and Sasy |
| Smiley | says | No, I refuse to drag my dad around to everywhere. I'll stay on WoWscape and continue to crash every hour. |
| Washu | It would be a choice, that means you wouldnt have to go |
| El Crimson | agrees with Blue about the internet has not limited access and any child of 5 years can watch porn, even not looking for it (the daughter of |
| El Crimson | a friend was looking for pics of bears and you can imagine what she found) |
| El Crimson | says | anyway, what worries me is not what they can see, becuase i consider is the responsability of the parents to control what their childrens... |
| El Crimson | see, but i'm worried about how this can affect my SL, my user experience |
| El Crimson | so i ask to Linden Lab for a way, not discriminatory, that marks clearly what places are mature and what not, and a clear rule about it |
| El Crimson | one big example of how bad can LL react about maturity was the last SL5B, or the "Nipplegate" |
| El Crimson | so, sincerly, i hope you fix that before |
| mccabe | says | aaaaand all arguments supporting Second Life in elementary and high schools just went out the window  |
| Smiley | laughs hysterically at McCabe's comment.  |
| Kedawen | thinks | this thread was awesome. I think there's pros and cons of integrating the two grids... but it would be crazy if it did happen. |
| Damo | thinks | LL could do it at the flip of a switch, someone should sneak in there and flip it |
| Daniel Voyager | says | |
| RetiredTeagan | asks | Who is going to be responsible for the minors having access to things the shouldn't? |
| Damo | the minor's parents |
| RetiredTeagan | says | yes, and the first sign of trouble they will blame all of us |
| Annyka | says | i don't like this idea at all. I think the *only* way that it could be made acceptable to parents is if the entire grid was made PG and |
| Annyka | says | a separate grid for Mature content |
| Annyka | says | but then a separate "perverts only" would probably languish like the teen grid is now |
| Ivey Firefly | says | I've had to ban multiple underage players from my sims. They're out there already, putting every mature sim owner in danger |
| Annyka | says | I dont think theyre putting sim owners in danger now because their presence on the grid is LL's responsibility |
| Annyka | says | residents have a reasonable expectation that everyone on the grid is supposed to be over 18 |
| Annyka | says | An all-ages grid puts all of the onus on the residents, which i guess ties right into the whole age verificaton thing |
| Annyka | says | I guess it would be one sure way to force everyone to age-verify |
| Ivey Firefly | says | Wonders who would be prosecuted by the parent who found their child in an adult situation with another av..LL or the adult involved |
| Ivey Firefly | says | and I dont just mean sexual situations. I have a horror sim, nude images in my store etc |
| Ivey Firefly | says | personally I dont want the responsibility of children in that environment or have to curb my behavior or tastes FOR children |
| Damo | I found footage of the plan of SL teen and main grid merging and the results:  |
| Smiley | says | ROFL. Or... A black hole will open up and swallow the earth! |
| St. VALentine | says | I’m all for creating holistic virtual communities, where teens and adults can interact in ways that enhance positive dialog... |
| St. VALentine | says | and the exchange of ideas. It also makes business sense for LL to eliminate the overhead associated with supporting multiple grids. |
| St. VALentine | says | That being said, a merged grid that lacks STRONG protections for teen users would throw the door wide open |
| St. VALentine | says | to potentially devastating emotional and legal consequences. I can see the attorneys queuing up the lawsuit now; |
| St. VALentine | says | after the parents of some naive 13 year old girl find her weeping in front of the computer, |
| St. VALentine | says | while her avatar is “controlled” by an adult who offered her a “pretty collar” as a gift. |
| St. VALentine | says | The safety and welfare of our most vulnerable netizens (our children) should be the primary concern, |
| St. VALentine | says | “Let us redefine progress to mean that just because we can do a thing, it does not necessarily mean we must do that thing.” |
| St. VALentine | says | Federation President; Star Trek VI (Undiscovered Country) |
| Daniel Voyager | shares | danielvoyagerblog.wordpress.com/2009/01/20/teen-second-life-grid-merge-is-near/ |
| sachiv | says | In a few words Blue 'no payment info' BIG mistake. That would have kept the teens out. There was less theft before. |
| sachiv | says | If you integrate the teen grid into the main grid then a lot of people will leave I believe. LL have made some seriously bad decisions. |
| sachiv | says | This would be their worst. |
| Abra | says | I agree with Valiant "The safety and welfare of our most vulnerable netizens (our children) should be the primary concern," |
| Abra | says | what else is important is our freedom of expression, which would create a point of conflict if they were merged. Don't do it Linden Labs > |
| Abra | says | it would ruin the game and people would end up leaving |
| Hart Larsson | says | why on the main grid all need to insert CC to play? this will solve lot of problems also to certify RL data |
| sachiv | says | And Valiant said everything else I would have said for me in his post. |
| CoryBrando | is | Hi there, I'm a TG'er, and I don't want to be with adults. |
| CoryBrando | is | And for you "Teen Haters", you don't know ALL of us, so don't generalize. |
| KharneSpyker | says | I'm from the TG, I own a lead group on the TG. I'm also against the merge, so before you RAGE over my post and disregard it, hear me out. |
| KharneSpyker | says | Most TG residents are immature as hell. They are not in the least bit intelligent or reasonable. Half of TG items are copybotted from MG. |
| KharneSpyker | says | However, there are some of us that are very mature and ready to be on the MG. There is no way LL can discriminate, so I say f*ck the merge. |
| KharneSpyker | says | Keep them separate, just as it always has been. For the good of both the MG and TG, and for the good of originality and creativity. |
| CoryBrando | is | Well Said, Sir. |
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