frankmartin asks Aug 06, 2008 12:58AM Who here has direct experience moderating, participating, or being a client for focus groups?
frankmartin says Aug 06, 2008 12:59AM I want to hear about your experiences, and how you think it might relate to Web 2.0
frankmartin says Aug 06, 2008 12:59AM in helping people understand WHY people buy stuff, and how we can use the interactivity of this and other sites
DebInAustin says Aug 06, 2008 01:00AM sorry- all of the above-moderating, writing the questions/surveys, participating, and a client
DebInAustin says Aug 06, 2008 01:01AM in grad school I ran focus groups with my colleagues on various topics- the purpose was to do social linguistic analysis on the participants
DebInAustin says Aug 06, 2008 01:01AM the topics weren't the purpose, although the participants thought they were.
DebInAustin says Aug 06, 2008 01:02AM my grad school focus groups were to study dominance in conversation between men and women in group situations.
Connie Aug 06, 2008 01:03AM [note: if you are following the plurkshop on the "plurk page," you will have to manually refresh your browser.]
DebInAustin says Aug 06, 2008 01:04AM my political FGs were looking at various demographics and their perceptions of issues and campaign topics/candidates.
DebInAustin says Aug 06, 2008 01:03AM the purpose was to help us develop messaging- both topics and how to frame them
frankmartin asks Aug 06, 2008 01:03AM thanks connie - so Deb, the purpose was to study the participants rather than to gain insight for commercial or political reasons?
DebInAustin says Aug 06, 2008 01:05AM in grad school yes. There are various linguistic devices people use to dominate a conversation we wanted to see which ones were used
DebInAustin says Aug 06, 2008 01:04AM by the different genders, who was successful and how they used them.
frankmartin Aug 06, 2008 01:05AM pontificates: focus groups have been used for the past 30 - 40 years
DebInAustin says Aug 06, 2008 01:06AM the political stuff probably is a better fit for tonights conversation, although my grad school stuff was more fun to transcribe and analyze
frankmartin Aug 06, 2008 01:06AM they were originally conducted in living rooms by people curious as to why participants used products or bought stuff
shepherd wonders Aug 06, 2008 01:07AM if focus groups are leveraged to drive opinion or create strategies? What process motivates most focus groups to convene?
frankmartin says Aug 06, 2008 01:09AM we are able to use the webfor almost continuous interaction - what are some of the ways that YOUsee we can do the same sort of "research"?
frankmartin says Aug 06, 2008 01:09AM shepherd - not to drive, but to understand, and to create the foundation for "learned influence"
AmberCadabra Aug 06, 2008 01:09AM Frank, do you think the unstructured nature of the web is an asset or a detraction to cos trying to use it for research?
AmberCadabra Aug 06, 2008 01:10AM focus groups are often very ..uh...focused. in structure. specific questions, etc.
frankmartin says Aug 06, 2008 01:11AM Now we see Starbucks andDell using the web to collect qualitative info about the customer experience
AmberCadabra Aug 06, 2008 01:10AM I would think the web presents questions to companies that they never thought to ask or address
frankmartin says Aug 06, 2008 01:12AM it's unstructured, which allows more freedom and less constraint for participants
shepherd thinks Aug 06, 2008 01:12AM the web makes it easier to poll mass wide spread opinions, but perhaps at some lost of focus.
frankmartin says Aug 06, 2008 01:12AM amber - the beautiful thing is tha you ask the question, and it goes where it well, with no time constraint
AmberCadabra Aug 06, 2008 01:13AM so frank, doesn't that make it hard to determine where and when you have the "answer" (if that's even possible?)
DebInAustin asks Aug 06, 2008 01:14AM when you ask those kinds of questions online, is self-selecting respondents a concern, or a benefit?
frankmartin says Aug 06, 2008 01:13AM deb - marketing research is about helping people make informed decisions with respect t marketing and making goods and services
frankmartin says Aug 06, 2008 01:14AM we learn what motivates buyers and prospects, and use that in marketing
AmberCadabra Aug 06, 2008 01:16AM Frank what do you think the advantage is of a trad focus group vs. using the web?
frankmartin says Aug 06, 2008 01:17AM in quant self selecting is a no no - in Qual - it's not that inportant to prevent in qualitative such as this
Te-ge wonders Aug 06, 2008 01:16AM if it ends up looking a lot like our Plurkshop threads. The answer is there, along with several other answers.
frankmartin says Aug 06, 2008 01:17AM amber - trad = focus andclients viewing and participating in a short time frame
DebInAustin asks Aug 06, 2008 01:16AM because your respondents are the people you are looking for anyway. The web makes it easier to find them.
frankmartin says Aug 06, 2008 01:17AM web = less control, more free reign and longer time frame and cheaper
AmberCadabra Aug 06, 2008 01:18AM Frank - for those of us who aren't trad. marketing trained, can you define "qual" and "quant"?
shepherd Aug 06, 2008 01:18AM wonder how you balance the opinion of one focus group versus others to find "learned influence"?
frankmartin says Aug 06, 2008 01:19AM Quant - projectable to a population of respondents. Obama leads McCain 55-45
frankmartin says Aug 06, 2008 01:19AM Qualitaive = deep. Voters don't rust McCain because his wife looks like she has had plastic surgery
frankmartin says Aug 06, 2008 01:20AM And most of the time, focus groups are blended with other research and field interviews in an attempt to get closer to truth
frankmartin says Aug 06, 2008 01:22AM deb - sometimes the web makes it easier to find them - there are many who still are not connected
DebInAustin says Aug 06, 2008 01:23AM Frank can you give us an example of an FG that is blended with other research and field interviews?
AmberCadabra Aug 06, 2008 01:23AM Frank, can you offer an example of how you've successfully used the web as a focus group?
frankmartin says Aug 06, 2008 01:23AM teeg exactly - Plurk is a terrific way of testing thoughts and ideas with people who have a little moreexpertise than your average bear!
DebInAustin says Aug 06, 2008 01:23AM that makes sense on finding respondents. A lot depends on what demographic you are looking for.
frankmartin says Aug 06, 2008 01:23AM Examples: new product. Web was used to collect opinions about options that are currently available in a product line
shepherd asks Aug 06, 2008 01:25AM are blind study focus groups best for research on opinions, or do participants know fully why they are there?
frankmartin says Aug 06, 2008 01:25AM Those opinions were used to recruit participants for focus groups to discuss the new product
frankmartin says Aug 06, 2008 01:26AM shepherd depends on the application - blind is useful when the knowledge of who the client is can affect the response
Te-ge is Aug 06, 2008 01:26AM mostly listening and learning Deb...plus, Plurk seems to be loading slow tonight, or mine does at least.
frankmartin says Aug 06, 2008 01:28AM amber - we have used web groups to recruit participants who do not live in the same area, but who share interest or expertise
frankmartin says Aug 06, 2008 01:28AM we then pick their brians online about everything from usage to advertising
Te-ge wonders Aug 06, 2008 01:29AM if the number of people willing to participate in offline focus groups has dropped as online ones have increased?
AmberCadabra Aug 06, 2008 01:29AM i have a co here that is always calling me since i participated in one
shepherd thinks Aug 06, 2008 01:30AM part of the slowness is the nonlinear interplay of responses. In conversation, threads can overlap & body language creates subthreads
AmberCadabra Aug 06, 2008 01:30AM I admit to being a focus group skeptic -they always seem so contrived to me but i suppose they must work
shepherd Aug 06, 2008 01:32AM notes that the last comment is in regard to Plurk threads as a conversation or forum as opposed to live conversation in a room.
frankmartin says Aug 06, 2008 01:32AM amber - I've sensed yourskepticism - not surprised.But you would be FANTASTIC as a moderator- because you are curious.
AmberCadabra Aug 06, 2008 01:32AM curious I is. But much is because I came by marketing by accident, not thru formal edu/training
AmberCadabra Aug 06, 2008 01:33AM Yeah the last moderator I had sucked. I think you have to be able to vamp a bit and see where the convo goes
frankmartin says Aug 06, 2008 01:34AM the best marketers came to it from somewhere else itseems - but they share thetrait of nearly indefatigable curiosity
frankmartin says Aug 06, 2008 01:34AM maybe - depends on the group chemistry, how well the group was recruited and the outline
shepherd wonders Aug 06, 2008 01:34AM if influencers are sometimes planted into focus groups as participants?
AmberCadabra Aug 06, 2008 01:35AM Frank do you directly attribute particular marketing successes to the use of focus groups?
frankmartin says Aug 06, 2008 01:38AM I have seen clients leave with tears in their eyes because they were happy, and crushed
frankmartin says Aug 06, 2008 01:37AM shepherd - there is no reason the client would do that - their purpose is to learn WHAT will make it successful
AmberCadabra Aug 06, 2008 01:39AM Crushed b/c they learned something that was contrary to what they hoped, you mean?
frankmartin says Aug 06, 2008 01:39AM yes - because they had invested a lot of dreams and money only to find out the idea was not a good one
Connie Aug 06, 2008 01:40AM Bet you are called upon to do some hand holding when the client learns some things they didn't really want to know.
Te-ge Aug 06, 2008 01:40AM could see you doing one, Deb. I think Amber's would ask more questions but yours would be intense and focused.
AmberCadabra Aug 06, 2008 01:40AM ouchie. isn't that a case for doing the focus group first, at the initial stages of the idea?
frankmartin Aug 06, 2008 01:42AM connie all the time - but most of the time it is a continuing process anyway
frankmartin Aug 06, 2008 01:41AM connie - not to be oblique - but at any stage where they sense they could make better decisions if they knew more about a particular market
frankmartin Aug 06, 2008 01:43AM yeah - but most of the time clients do a lot of work to get to that point
Connie Aug 06, 2008 01:44AM I'm thinking like when they're choosing a name? Finding out who would use their product/service therefore how to market it?
AmberCadabra Aug 06, 2008 01:43AM frank, can you give some examples of those moments where a focus group has proved invaluable?
frankmartin Aug 06, 2008 01:43AM shepherd - political groups are used not to "sway", but to learn what arguments, or talking points resonate
frankmartin Aug 06, 2008 01:45AM connie - interestingly enough, that's not the best application. I never do groups to "test" creative, but to generate food for creative
shepherd Aug 06, 2008 01:47AM often sees "startup" weekends where people come together as a self generated focus group to come to consensus on a business strategy.
frankmartin Aug 06, 2008 01:47AM examples: at the beginning of a process when clients are "optimizing" a produc
frankmartin Aug 06, 2008 01:47AM when they are trying to find out the vocabulary people use in different situations, to describe frustration
frankmartin Aug 06, 2008 01:49AM shepherd - the best focus groups will never generate "consensus", but generate **insight**
Connie Aug 06, 2008 01:48AM okay, I'm understanding it more as research now. (duh) Intelligence gathering rather than testing.
frankmartin Aug 06, 2008 01:51AM I do groups all the time for small companies who are making big decisions
AmberCadabra Aug 06, 2008 01:52AM and are you the one that suggests that a focus group is the right mechanism, or do they already know that?
Connie Aug 06, 2008 01:53AM We had a client who came to social media late in their startup process, after spending many thousands on tradtl PR and advertising.
DebInAustin says Aug 06, 2008 01:52AM I once learned so much from a political focus group that it not only shaped our messaging, but gave us enough food to go back and re-do
Connie Aug 06, 2008 01:53AM Bottom line is that they just did not have a big enough market for their service yet - they were too early.
frankmartin says Aug 06, 2008 01:53AM Most of the time now, clients call me when they want to do groups - but they also call when they are in a quandary
frankmartin says Aug 06, 2008 01:56AM people are getting counsel from traditional agencies, and guess what tehy recommend?
DebInAustin says Aug 06, 2008 01:55AM I think some orgs I have worked with didn't want to use the FG to learn from, but really just to reinforce what they already knew and that
AmberCadabra Aug 06, 2008 01:57AM Deb that's EXACTLY what I've experienced and probably why I've been so skeptical
frankmartin says Aug 06, 2008 01:57AM deb that happens all the time! I've been called in to do groups to "prove the boss wring!"
Te-ge is Aug 06, 2008 01:57AM going to sound like a total newb, but how do you run a focus group? The only ones I've had experience with were from psych class in college
frankmartin says Aug 06, 2008 01:58AM the moderator either knew better and did the groups anyway, or they should have known better
Connie Aug 06, 2008 01:58AM You mean the moderator is directing the conversation too much -- like a trial attorney asking leading questions?
frankmartin says Aug 06, 2008 02:00AM teeg - check out my blog for more than you would ever want to know about how to run focus groups
frankmartin says Aug 06, 2008 02:00AM the best moderators do all of their talking to the clients before the groups!
frankmartin says Aug 06, 2008 02:01AM Clients hire the moderator - but that can be everone from the Junior assistant fledgling to the CEO
Connie Aug 06, 2008 02:05AM How expensive is a FG? Cost of moderator plus what - venue? do you pay participants?
frankmartin Aug 06, 2008 02:06AM Focus groups cost $5000 - $7500 - depending on 1) what you pay participants, and 2) how much it costs to recruit them
frankmartin Aug 06, 2008 02:07AM Mods breaking into the biz cost less, but that's why a lot of people have a bad experience with groups
DebInAustin says Aug 06, 2008 02:06AM you guys, I have to go! I am sorry!! Thanks so much Frank. I learned a ton!
Connie Aug 06, 2008 02:08AM Thanks for ballpark figure. helps me know whether to suggest it to a client.
Connie Aug 06, 2008 02:08AM Understand that about experienced moderators -- you get what you pay for, literally, in the value of information gained.
frankmartin Aug 06, 2008 02:09AM that's a good fee Amber! We pay consumers about $85, depending on the market
Connie Aug 06, 2008 02:09AM Amber raises a good question. How often do the participants know what company they are doing a FG for?
frankmartin Aug 06, 2008 02:09AM So true - frequently the biggest thing moderators can do is keep clients from losing focus
frankmartin Aug 06, 2008 02:09AM They know about 25% of the time, can guess about 50% and are clueless 25%
AmberCadabra Aug 06, 2008 02:11AM In the one I did, it was so obvious b/c of the questions they kept coming back to
shepherd Aug 06, 2008 02:12AM learned a lot from this Plurkshop. Very interesting. Thanks for the insight.
Te-ge wonders Aug 06, 2008 02:12AM should you only have 1 question that you're hoping for an answer to, or are 2 related questions okay?
Connie Aug 06, 2008 02:13AM Frank, this has been very informative. You can tell I knew next to nothing. Thanks for spending the time with us.
frankmartin Aug 06, 2008 02:12AM Teeg - more than one are ok - but I do ask clients to set priorities
frankmartin Aug 06, 2008 02:14AM connie - you've helped me a million times sweetie - this was nothing. Always good to chat with you!
AmberCadabra Aug 06, 2008 02:14AM Frank this has really been enlightening!! Are you going to write a recap, by chance??
Te-ge says Aug 06, 2008 02:16AM Thank you for leading this, Frank. I've read your blog for a while, but missed the articles on Focus groups. Learned a lot tonight.