Walter Burns feels Jul 22, 2008 05:33PM Some sort of way doing this House of Umoja research. Seems Jesse Jackson threw around the N-word pretty liberally in '73. Just sayin'..
Walter Burns says Jul 22, 2008 05:35PM quote: "Ain't no N- got no justification to kill another N-." I'm sayin' though; Jesse MUST be smarter than that. Or so I thought. Ugh.
JDHP says Jul 22, 2008 05:36PM I'm sure he is, but he's just not as polished as we have previously thought him to be
HustleMania says Jul 22, 2008 05:37PM Hmm...that's interesting. Seems like Jesse was always flaky. What happened with him and that kid
Camping Lisa wonders Jul 22, 2008 05:38PM if the black community is ok with the "N" word as long as you are black. I heard Whoopi Goldberg say it is ok as long as a black person ...
Walter Burns says Jul 22, 2008 05:38PM You got that right, JDHP; I guess all habits never die. I'm not shocked either, veronicaromm; more disheartened, I guess..->
JDHP says Jul 22, 2008 05:40PM some people use it to refer to all people not just african-americans. its like a noun alomst.
A_NYRican says Jul 22, 2008 05:40PM I don't use it and won't respond to it at all. But I don't condemn those that do. *Too liberal and believes in the freedom of speech*
JDHP says Jul 22, 2008 05:41PM I've heard people say things like "look at that Chinese N---- right there"
Walter Burns says Jul 22, 2008 05:41PM I have had this debate maybe a million times, especially whiel covering hip-hop for features. Ehh, the world would be much better off w/o it
MelissaThinks says Jul 22, 2008 05:42PM the argument on the view was interesting. Elizabeth just really doesn't get that we all have different cultures.
A_NYRican says Jul 22, 2008 05:43PM do I like the word, the answer is no. But again, I do believe in the freedom of speech.
MelissaThinks says Jul 22, 2008 05:44PM as an Italian American I will say things about other Italians but God help an Irish person if they said it. Same kind of thing.
A_NYRican says Jul 22, 2008 05:44PM And therefore, if we start banning words we don't like what else do we start banning. It's all tied together.
Camping Lisa says Jul 22, 2008 05:46PM I understand not "banning" a word., I am a public school teacher and it does get rather "GRAY" when you want to have consequences for
Camping Lisa says Jul 22, 2008 05:47PM the student who uses the "N" word in a derogatory way when just 2 min earlier it was used by the same person it was used against..
JDHP says Jul 22, 2008 05:47PM depending upon your position, if your a public figure, you have a different set of rules than a guy from up the block
Camping Lisa says Jul 22, 2008 05:48PM so even if you are using it as a "noun" it has an element of disrespect
Walter Burns says Jul 22, 2008 05:48PM Ahh, the free-thinking Plurkanatti has spoken! There are some interesting viewpoints in this thread....
JDHP says Jul 22, 2008 05:49PM people will say its ok and its a freedom of speech until your in a position where people expect something different from you.
A_NYRican says Jul 22, 2008 05:50PM I never said the word is ok. But it does unfortunately fall under freedom of speech.
A_NYRican says Jul 22, 2008 05:50PM Now with that said, does that mean that I will buy a song from an artist that uses that word, the answer is no.
A_NYRican says Jul 22, 2008 05:51PM would I vote for a politician that uses that word, no. Would I associate myself with someone that uses that word, no.
A_NYRican says Jul 22, 2008 05:51PM This is where freedom of speech and your own personal options come into play. We can exercise the **right** not to condone such a word.
Walter Burns says Jul 22, 2008 05:53PM And with FOS comes a certain level of responsibility; and true, FOS doesn't protect the speaker from a wicked backlash. Very interesting...
Camping Lisa asks Jul 22, 2008 05:53PM how do we teach our children the proper use (or in my opinion no use) of the word...I agree with the freedom of speech thing..but I would
LEMills is Jul 22, 2008 05:53PM fascinated by how words morph according to meaning and context. Wonder where "friend" will be in the near future (not to derail this convo)
Camping Lisa asks Jul 22, 2008 05:54PM welcome ideas. I work at teaching diversity and acceptance in a VERY rural school in south central PA
A_NYRican says Jul 22, 2008 05:54PM freedom of speech does not and should not dismiss the right to teach your kids the reason why this word should not be used.
A_NYRican says Jul 22, 2008 05:54PM Personal responsibility is not covered by freedom of speech. It's the same as calling some Asian Oriental.
A_NYRican says Jul 22, 2008 05:55PM Parents should be able to sit down, explain to **their** children what the word means and why it should not be used & is not condone by them
Camping Lisa says Jul 22, 2008 05:58PM many of my student's parents use the "N" word and any host of other words inappropriately. I word very hard to undo a lot of hate taught
Walter Burns says Jul 22, 2008 06:01PM campinglisa (and all who chimed in) has a point: you have to school the youth of today on it; sadly, parents throw it around just as much..
A_NYRican says Jul 22, 2008 06:05PM unfortunately, I agree, there are many irresponsible parents. The children may or may not see your POV. But I still stand on not banning.
A_NYRican says Jul 22, 2008 06:05PM Although this country does have freedom of speech, we have banned in the past and continue to ban certain books, music, etc.
A_NYRican says Jul 22, 2008 06:06PM Again, I don't agree with this type of banning. I believe our ability to choose. But banning FOS ...
A_NYRican says Jul 22, 2008 06:07PM no matter how hateful infringes on that right which can be used to ban things that we don't want to ban.
Walter Burns says Jul 22, 2008 06:09PM A_NYRican is right on the ban; in fact, I think a ban will have the opposite effect, like those 'Explicit Lyrics" warnings on cd's...
Walter Burns says Jul 22, 2008 06:10PM Banning language is putting both feet on a very slippery slope, IMHO...good feedback and comments!
Camping Lisa says Jul 22, 2008 06:10PM I agree with you A_NYRican I just get so frustrated with people who disrespect others or themselves
Camping Lisa says Jul 22, 2008 06:10PM I think that using the "N" word and any host of others like women who use the "B" word for each other are showing a level of disrespect to
JDHP says Jul 22, 2008 06:12PM well that word is not going away, if anything its more prominent now than ever. And its double-standard laced slur
A_NYRican is Jul 22, 2008 06:12PM wiping her sweaty brow and taking a good sip of her ice cold water. LOL
Walter Burns says Jul 22, 2008 06:12PM That's what soapboxes are for!! That's just endemic of self-hate, campinglisa, in all its myriad forms....
A_NYRican says Jul 22, 2008 06:14PM I don't think I want that word to go away. I believe we (parents, teachers, the entire community) should teach our kids why...
A_NYRican says Jul 22, 2008 06:14PM the use of the word should not be promoted as something positive.
A_NYRican says Jul 22, 2008 06:15PM the moment that words goes away the impact of the word goes away with it.
A_NYRican says Jul 22, 2008 06:15PM If you noticed the word has been changed in spelling lessen the impact of what the word means.
JDHP says Jul 22, 2008 06:15PM most people wont bat and eye if its said until you are in the public eye. most people wont address it until Michael Richards says it
Camping Lisa says Jul 22, 2008 06:16PM A_NYRican I totally agree. I read something by John Milton called Areopagitica which speaks against censoring..it is old but relevant
A_NYRican says Jul 22, 2008 06:17PM This shows the impact has been changed to the **new** generation. We have the responsibility to say No, and it means this & it s origin.
Camping Lisa says Jul 22, 2008 06:17PM it is sort of like the frog in boiling water analagy isn't it?
A_NYRican says Jul 22, 2008 06:20PM this reminds me of something George Carlin said about changing how people feel about something by changing the word.
A_NYRican says Jul 22, 2008 06:20PM I remember he said something to the effect that once you change the word to something else the impact of that word changes as well.
A_NYRican says Jul 22, 2008 06:21PM I wish I could remember exactly what he said because he made perfect sense.
Walter Burns says Jul 22, 2008 06:21PM The spell change was a front, though, A_NYRican; I wonder which forces were behind that? NWA? 2 Live Crew? 'a' is more accepted than 'er'..
A_NYRican says Jul 22, 2008 06:22PM exactly it is a front. But when our kids see this as oh well it means something else now. How do we combat that?
A_NYRican says Jul 22, 2008 06:22PM we have to gear ourselves with knowledge how words impact our way of thinking.
Camping Lisa asks Jul 22, 2008 06:22PM <as an obviously white woman> why does it not bother much of the Black community when the groups like NWA and 2 Live Crew use the word
A_NYRican feels Jul 22, 2008 06:23PM that for all those plurks I never get a chance to respond to I think this one makes up for it. LOL
A_NYRican says Jul 22, 2008 06:23PM it only does not bother some. Not all of us feel that way. I don't care who you are, what color you are as a Black Puerto Rican woman...
JDHP says Jul 22, 2008 06:23PM Because they say it just as much as they do on the records. it a term used as not negatively as it should be but as a way to refer to...
A_NYRican says Jul 22, 2008 06:24PM I am here to tell you that I will speak up on not using that word in front of me
A_NYRican says Jul 22, 2008 06:25PM and this is where the issue lies. Why does the Black community accept this word? Why is it OK for some to use and not others.
A_NYRican says Jul 22, 2008 06:26PM I understand why Caucasians are confused. I really do. And honestly, I don't have an answer to that. I can only speak for myself.
JDHP says Jul 22, 2008 06:26PM DOUBLE-STANDARD. Black people have a Monopoly on it. In my opinion. Black people can say whatever about anybody and no one holds them to it
Camping Lisa says Jul 22, 2008 06:26PM this is why the "white" community gets confused...ok I am not apologizing for the Imus's of the world, but it does seem confusing
JDHP says Jul 22, 2008 06:27PM until you are a public figure and you say something bad about Black people. like calling then the N-word
Walter Burns says Jul 22, 2008 06:30PM Deep thread. In some parts of the black community, the word is almost defended; in others, it's reviled. There's no consensus anymore..
A_NYRican says Jul 22, 2008 06:32PM he may be. But again, he brought up an issue that continues to be an issue in the Black community today - unity.
Walter Burns says Jul 22, 2008 06:33PM What amazes me is that I have never heard any other derogatory term thrown around/embraced as much as 'N-." what is THAT saying? Anything?
A_NYRican says Jul 22, 2008 06:34PM exactly DCW but you know why because the group that should have denounced it embraced it themselves.
A_NYRican says Jul 22, 2008 06:35PM As a Puerto Rican, I would never allow you to call me a spic. Some hispanics do but very few. Most would denounce the word immediately.
A_NYRican says Jul 22, 2008 06:36PM I have a young lady here in Plurk who constantly throws that word around. I never respond to those plurks.
Camping Lisa says Jul 22, 2008 06:39PM I think that DCW Burns will have a sky rocketing Karma after this thread
Walter Burns says Jul 22, 2008 06:41PM I feel you, A_NYRican; As an African-American, I cringe when I hear it; as a journalist, I need the FOS; I hate the conundrum, personally.
Camping Lisa says Jul 22, 2008 06:43PM DCW burns anytime you want to do a fascinating story on the "Challenge of Diversity in rural america" you can come to my school and
Walter Burns says Jul 22, 2008 06:48PM You know what, campinglisa? That sounds like a VERY good idea!!!! can you shoot an e-mail to williadc@phillynews.com with a few specifics-
Walter Burns says Jul 22, 2008 06:49PM Well, this is a hot-button issue, A_NYRican and The Plurkanatti is not short on opinions
ampersandrea says Jul 22, 2008 06:50PM I've skimmed the plurk. I hope I don't repeat anything. I think its a cop out to 'embrace' a word by changing the -er to an -a.
ampersandrea says Jul 22, 2008 06:51PM Do I use it? Yep. To describe people that don't take responsibility in themselves, their neighborhood, family, community...
ampersandrea says Jul 22, 2008 06:52PM I would actually. I would rather have a world where the word doesn't apply to anyone.
A_NYRican says Jul 22, 2008 06:56PM so basically, this is the problem. The impact of the word has been changed.
ampersandrea says Jul 22, 2008 06:55PM I always thought it just meant 'an ignorant person' - with racial undertones, of course
A_NYRican says Jul 22, 2008 06:56PM using it in the context that it was used it, you are basically saying all Blacks are lazy and irresponsible.
A_NYRican says Jul 22, 2008 06:56PM the problem is that our youth don't know what the word means. Another issue.
ampersandrea says Jul 22, 2008 06:57PM but I didn't say I was using solely on black people though. I said people of ALL RACES.
A_NYRican says Jul 22, 2008 07:00PM please research the word. After you do, you will never use it to describe anyone.
A_NYRican says Jul 22, 2008 07:07PM haha I understand. When you can. But I am glad that you are trying to understand.
Walter Burns says Jul 22, 2008 07:17PM It's very complex and layered; I also think, to the older generation, the folks that were born prior to 1950, it carries a lot of pain...
Walter Burns says Jul 22, 2008 07:18PM for the younger cats, those more edgy, worldly, it may carry a different context. My grandmother would fall OUT if she heard it, for example
ampersandrea says Jul 22, 2008 07:19PM see - my dad had this campaign. T.E.N. = total elimination of niggas. And he defined niggas as ppl who are irresponsible.
ampersandrea says Jul 22, 2008 07:20PM and outside of the historical context - I still agree with that.
A_NYRican says Jul 22, 2008 07:23PM OK. And please don't take this the wrong way but you just proved my point. Change the word changes the impact. *Amen*
Walter Burns says Jul 22, 2008 07:32PM This is some thread. 144 responses, including perhaps 20 of my own. I appreciate everyone's comments! Free thinkers, indeed...
LEMills is Jul 22, 2008 08:17PM back from a 2-hr meeting, and no one's mentioned Joseph Conrad yet! Mostly, though, I'm interested in the community-based useage.
LEMills Jul 22, 2008 08:17PM There's no parallel in the white world (I don't think). We don't throw around "WASP" as an in-group term of affection or derision, (do we?)
Walter Burns says Jul 22, 2008 08:21PM LEMills is very smart; that's one of the points I was trying to make!!
LEMills Jul 22, 2008 08:24PM dcw, you're going out on a limb there! But "honkey" (sp?) was not something we called ourselves...
A_NYRican Jul 22, 2008 08:24PM agrees with LEMills and I know that was one of the points but again this will bring me back to my soapbox. I need to eat to type that one.
LEMills Jul 22, 2008 08:25PM So perhaps it's a word that has a mixed affection - a "safe" word to signify an oppressed group
LEMills Jul 22, 2008 08:28PM And while I'm here... I really, REALLY dislike the frequency of "d-bag" - just another sexist remark in a world with too many already
Camping Lisa says Jul 22, 2008 08:49PM I just realized what you meant by "d-bag" I thought it meant "dirt bag"...
LEMills Jul 22, 2008 09:24PM HA! I'm always reading it as "douche" (there are so many levels to that... the procedure beingsomething of my mother's generation)
latoyasutton says Jul 22, 2008 09:43PM this is a good conversation to have. And it's being handled intelligently too. You don't see that too often.
LEMills Jul 22, 2008 09:54PM Well, one reason may be that the usual bunch of commenters for Damon's Daily News articles aren't on Plurk! (or at least I don't think so)
lilyhill Jul 22, 2008 11:37PM Words have the power to hurt. ANY words. It's the intention behind them. Never allowed hate speech in my house. Awareness starts there.
Walter Burns says Jul 23, 2008 12:02AM You got that absolutely right, LEMills. And lilyhill is also right; its amazing how much music I thrown out, over the lyrics, for the kids
A_NYRican says Jul 23, 2008 01:14AM lilyhill you are right on the mark. Awareness starts in the home. Unfortunately, like one of the writers here wrote, some just don't.
A_NYRican says Jul 23, 2008 01:15AM Or use the word themselves. It's the education of parents - the community as a whole that needs to change. But banning is not the way.
Camping Lisa says Jul 24, 2008 02:04AM SquireHogg that I think we teach people how to treat (or call us) so if we use words for ourselves that our offensive from others..it sends