| Walter Burns | feels | Some sort of way doing this House of Umoja research. Seems Jesse Jackson threw around the N-word pretty liberally in '73. Just sayin'.. |
Jul 22, 2008 -
05:33PM
| Walter Burns | feels | Some sort of way doing this House of Umoja research. Seems Jesse Jackson threw around the N-word pretty liberally in '73. Just sayin'.. |
| JDHP | says | he still does! lol |
| Walter Burns | says | quote: "Ain't no N- got no justification to kill another N-." I'm sayin' though; Jesse MUST be smarter than that. Or so I thought. Ugh. |
| JDHP | says | I'm sure he is, but he's just not as polished as we have previously thought him to be |
| HustleMania | says | Hmm...that's interesting. Seems like Jesse was always flaky. What happened with him and that kid |
| Camping Lisa | wonders | if the black community is ok with the "N" word as long as you are black. I heard Whoopi Goldberg say it is ok as long as a black person ... |
| Walter Burns | says | You got that right, JDHP; I guess all habits never die. I'm not shocked either, veronicaromm; more disheartened, I guess..-> |
| Camping Lisa | wonders | uses it |
| Walter Burns | says | <- shocked it showed up in print as boldly as it did. Hmm.. |
| Camping Lisa | says | as a "white person" it can be confusing. I don't like it |
| Camping Lisa | says | the "n" word that is |
| JDHP | says | some people use it to refer to all people not just african-americans. its like a noun alomst. |
| A_NYRican | says | I don't use it and won't respond to it at all. But I don't condemn those that do. *Too liberal and believes in the freedom of speech* |
| JDHP | says | I've heard people say things like "look at that Chinese N---- right there" |
| Walter Burns | says | I have had this debate maybe a million times, especially whiel covering hip-hop for features. Ehh, the world would be much better off w/o it |
| MelissaThinks | says | the argument on the view was interesting. Elizabeth just really doesn't get that we all have different cultures. |
| JDHP | says | And Puerto-Ricans use it just as much as African-Americans. |
| JDHP | says | Not ALL but where I'm from it is as common as Concrete |
| A_NYRican | says | do I like the word, the answer is no. But again, I do believe in the freedom of speech. |
| MelissaThinks | says | as an Italian American I will say things about other Italians but God help an Irish person if they said it. Same kind of thing. |
| A_NYRican | says | And therefore, if we start banning words we don't like what else do we start banning. It's all tied together. |
| JDHP | says | Me too |
| A_NYRican | says | Enough of our freedoms are being taken away. |
| Camping Lisa | says | I understand not "banning" a word., I am a public school teacher and it does get rather "GRAY" when you want to have consequences for |
| Camping Lisa | says | the student who uses the "N" word in a derogatory way when just 2 min earlier it was used by the same person it was used against.. |
| JDHP | says | depending upon your position, if your a public figure, you have a different set of rules than a guy from up the block |
| Camping Lisa | says | it seems like it is a word that shows disrespect |
| Camping Lisa | says | so even if you are using it as a "noun" it has an element of disrespect |
| Walter Burns | says | Ahh, the free-thinking Plurkanatti has spoken! There are some interesting viewpoints in this thread.... |
| How Bizarre. | That reminds me...I was watching the Pam Grier movie, Coffy, and they used the N-word a load of times. I was a bit shocked. |
| JDHP | says | people will say its ok and its a freedom of speech until your in a position where people expect something different from you. |
| A_NYRican | says | I never said the word is ok. But it does unfortunately fall under freedom of speech. |
| A_NYRican | says | Now with that said, does that mean that I will buy a song from an artist that uses that word, the answer is no. |
| A_NYRican | says | would I vote for a politician that uses that word, no. Would I associate myself with someone that uses that word, no. |
| A_NYRican | says | This is where freedom of speech and your own personal options come into play. We can exercise the **right** not to condone such a word. |
| A_NYRican | says | But we should not ban it either. |
| Walter Burns | says | And with FOS comes a certain level of responsibility; and true, FOS doesn't protect the speaker from a wicked backlash. Very interesting... |
| Camping Lisa | asks | how do we teach our children the proper use (or in my opinion no use) of the word...I agree with the freedom of speech thing..but I would |
| LEMills | is | fascinated by how words morph according to meaning and context. Wonder where "friend" will be in the near future (not to derail this convo) |
| Camping Lisa | asks | welcome ideas. I work at teaching diversity and acceptance in a VERY rural school in south central PA |
| A_NYRican | says | freedom of speech does not and should not dismiss the right to teach your kids the reason why this word should not be used. |
| A_NYRican | says | Personal responsibility is not covered by freedom of speech. It's the same as calling some Asian Oriental. |
| A_NYRican | says | Or calling a Hispanic person a spic. |
| A_NYRican | says | Parents should be able to sit down, explain to **their** children what the word means and why it should not be used & is not condone by them |
| Camping Lisa | says | many of my student's parents use the "N" word and any host of other words inappropriately. I word very hard to undo a lot of hate taught |
| Walter Burns | says | campinglisa (and all who chimed in) has a point: you have to school the youth of today on it; sadly, parents throw it around just as much.. |
| A_NYRican | says | unfortunately, I agree, there are many irresponsible parents. The children may or may not see your POV. But I still stand on not banning. |
| A_NYRican | says | Although this country does have freedom of speech, we have banned in the past and continue to ban certain books, music, etc. |
| A_NYRican | says | Again, I don't agree with this type of banning. I believe our ability to choose. But banning FOS ... |
| A_NYRican | says | no matter how hateful infringes on that right which can be used to ban things that we don't want to ban. |
| Walter Burns | says | A_NYRican is right on the ban; in fact, I think a ban will have the opposite effect, like those 'Explicit Lyrics" warnings on cd's... |
| Walter Burns | says | Banning language is putting both feet on a very slippery slope, IMHO...good feedback and comments! |
| Camping Lisa | says | I agree with you A_NYRican I just get so frustrated with people who disrespect others or themselves |
| Camping Lisa | says | I think that using the "N" word and any host of others like women who use the "B" word for each other are showing a level of disrespect to |
| Camping Lisa | says | themselves. |
| Camping Lisa | needs | to get off of her soapbox...sorry |
| A_NYRican | says | haha I do too. |
| JDHP | says | well that word is not going away, if anything its more prominent now than ever. And its double-standard laced slur |
| A_NYRican | is | wiping her sweaty brow and taking a good sip of her ice cold water. LOL |
| Walter Burns | says | That's what soapboxes are for!! That's just endemic of self-hate, campinglisa, in all its myriad forms.... |
| A_NYRican | says | I don't think I want that word to go away. I believe we (parents, teachers, the entire community) should teach our kids why... |
| A_NYRican | says | the use of the word should not be promoted as something positive. |
| A_NYRican | says | the moment that words goes away the impact of the word goes away with it. |
| A_NYRican | says | If you noticed the word has been changed in spelling lessen the impact of what the word means. |
| JDHP | says | most people wont bat and eye if its said until you are in the public eye. most people wont address it until Michael Richards says it |
| JDHP | says | or Bill O'riely or... Dick Cheney |
| Camping Lisa | says | A_NYRican I totally agree. I read something by John Milton called Areopagitica which speaks against censoring..it is old but relevant |
| A_NYRican | says | This shows the impact has been changed to the **new** generation. We have the responsibility to say No, and it means this & it s origin. |
| Camping Lisa | says | it is sort of like the frog in boiling water analagy isn't it? |
| A_NYRican | says | unfortunately, yes it is. |
| JDHP | says | or the crab in the bucket |
| A_NYRican | says |  |
| Camping Lisa | says | I have to say I really enjoy interacting with each of you... |
| JDHP | says |  |
| A_NYRican | says | this reminds me of something George Carlin said about changing how people feel about something by changing the word. |
| A_NYRican | says | I remember he said something to the effect that once you change the word to something else the impact of that word changes as well. |
| A_NYRican | says | I wish I could remember exactly what he said because he made perfect sense. |
| Walter Burns | says | The spell change was a front, though, A_NYRican; I wonder which forces were behind that? NWA? 2 Live Crew? 'a' is more accepted than 'er'.. |
| A_NYRican | says | exactly it is a front. But when our kids see this as oh well it means something else now. How do we combat that? |
| A_NYRican | says | we have to gear ourselves with knowledge how words impact our way of thinking. |
| Camping Lisa | asks | <as an obviously white woman> why does it not bother much of the Black community when the groups like NWA and 2 Live Crew use the word |
| A_NYRican | feels | that for all those plurks I never get a chance to respond to I think this one makes up for it. LOL |
| A_NYRican | says | it only does not bother some. Not all of us feel that way. I don't care who you are, what color you are as a Black Puerto Rican woman... |
| JDHP | says | Because they say it just as much as they do on the records. it a term used as not negatively as it should be but as a way to refer to... |
| A_NYRican | says | I am here to tell you that I will speak up on not using that word in front of me |
| A_NYRican | says | and this is where the issue lies. Why does the Black community accept this word? Why is it OK for some to use and not others. |
| A_NYRican | says | I understand why Caucasians are confused. I really do. And honestly, I don't have an answer to that. I can only speak for myself. |
| JDHP | says | DOUBLE-STANDARD. Black people have a Monopoly on it. In my opinion. Black people can say whatever about anybody and no one holds them to it |
| Camping Lisa | says | this is why the "white" community gets confused...ok I am not apologizing for the Imus's of the world, but it does seem confusing |
| A_NYRican | says | I completely agree. |
| Camping Lisa | thinks | A_NYRican we think alike |
| JDHP | says | until you are a public figure and you say something bad about Black people. like calling then the N-word |
| A_NYRican | says | really I do. |
| JDHP | says | yes |
| Walter Burns | says | Deep thread. In some parts of the black community, the word is almost defended; in others, it's reviled. There's no consensus anymore.. |
| JDHP | says | Imus is a D-Bag |
| A_NYRican | says | he may be. But again, he brought up an issue that continues to be an issue in the Black community today - unity. |
| JDHP | says | the damage is done, obviously. |
| Walter Burns | says | What amazes me is that I have never heard any other derogatory term thrown around/embraced as much as 'N-." what is THAT saying? Anything? |
| A_NYRican | says | As a Puerto Rican, I would never allow you to call me a spic. Some hispanics do but very few. Most would denounce the word immediately. |
| A_NYRican | says | I have a young lady here in Plurk who constantly throws that word around. I never respond to those plurks. |
| JDHP | says | Yeah, thats crazy. Who's behind that? |
| Camping Lisa | says | I think that DCW Burns will have a sky rocketing Karma after this thread  |
| Walter Burns | says | I feel you, A_NYRican; As an African-American, I cringe when I hear it; as a journalist, I need the FOS; I hate the conundrum, personally. |
| A_NYRican | says | this is what Plurk considers a quality Plurk  |
| Camping Lisa | says | DCW burns anytime you want to do a fascinating story on the "Challenge of Diversity in rural america" you can come to my school and |
| Camping Lisa | says | interview me and some of my students |
| Walter Burns | says | You know what, campinglisa? That sounds like a VERY good idea!!!! can you shoot an e-mail to williadc@phillynews.com with a few specifics- |
| Walter Burns | says | -on your school? |
| Walter Burns | says | Well, this is a hot-button issue, A_NYRican and The Plurkanatti is not short on opinions |
| ampersandrea | says | I've skimmed the plurk. I hope I don't repeat anything. I think its a cop out to 'embrace' a word by changing the -er to an -a. |
| Camping Lisa | says | no...but would you have it any other way? |
| ampersandrea | says | Do I use it? Yep. To describe people that don't take responsibility in themselves, their neighborhood, family, community... |
| ampersandrea | says | people...of ALL RACES |
| ampersandrea | says | I would actually. I would rather have a world where the word doesn't apply to anyone. |
| A_NYRican | says | but again you have changed the meaning of the word. |
| A_NYRican | says | so basically, this is the problem. The impact of the word has been changed. |
| ampersandrea | says | I always thought it just meant 'an ignorant person' - with racial undertones, of course |
| A_NYRican | says | using it in the context that it was used it, you are basically saying all Blacks are lazy and irresponsible. |
| A_NYRican | says | the problem is that our youth don't know what the word means. Another issue. |
| ampersandrea | says | but I didn't say I was using solely on black people though. I said people of ALL RACES. |
| A_NYRican | says | but that's the problem |
| A_NYRican | says | please research the word. After you do, you will never use it to describe anyone. |
| A_NYRican | says | see the origin, why it was used and the purpose it served. |
| A_NYRican | says | or if you want I can do this in a private plurk. |
| ampersandrea | says | ok. |
| ampersandrea | says | I just wiki'ed it. |
| ampersandrea | says | and also I understand that wiki isn't the end all of research |
| ampersandrea | says | but *I AM* at work...  |
| A_NYRican | says | haha I understand. When you can. But I am glad that you are trying to understand. |
| Walter Burns | says | It's very complex and layered; I also think, to the older generation, the folks that were born prior to 1950, it carries a lot of pain... |
| Walter Burns | says | for the younger cats, those more edgy, worldly, it may carry a different context. My grandmother would fall OUT if she heard it, for example |
| ampersandrea | says | see - my dad had this campaign. T.E.N. = total elimination of niggas. And he defined niggas as ppl who are irresponsible. |
| ampersandrea | says | That's where I got it from. |
| ampersandrea | says | and outside of the historical context - I still agree with that. |
| A_NYRican | says | OK. And please don't take this the wrong way but you just proved my point. Change the word changes the impact. *Amen* |
| Walter Burns | says | This is some thread. 144 responses, including perhaps 20 of my own. I appreciate everyone's comments! Free thinkers, indeed... |
| LEMills | is | back from a 2-hr meeting, and no one's mentioned Joseph Conrad yet! Mostly, though, I'm interested in the community-based useage. |
| LEMills | There's no parallel in the white world (I don't think). We don't throw around "WASP" as an in-group term of affection or derision, (do we?) |
| Walter Burns | says | LEMills is very smart; that's one of the points I was trying to make!! |
| LEMills | So perhaps it's a word that has a mixed affection - a "safe" word to signify an oppressed group |
| LEMills | but used by the outsiders to reinforce that oppression |
| LEMills | And while I'm here... I really, REALLY dislike the frequency of "d-bag" - just another sexist remark in a world with too many already |
| Camping Lisa | says | I just realized what you meant by "d-bag" I thought it meant "dirt bag"... |
| LEMills | HA! I'm always reading it as "douche" (there are so many levels to that... the procedure beingsomething of my mother's generation) |
| LEMills | [but I derail again] it's all context, though, isn't it? |
| latoyasutton | says | this is a good conversation to have. And it's being handled intelligently too. You don't see that too often. |
| LEMills | Well, one reason may be that the usual bunch of commenters for Damon's Daily News articles aren't on Plurk! (or at least I don't think so) |
| lilyhill | Words have the power to hurt. ANY words. It's the intention behind them. Never allowed hate speech in my house. Awareness starts there. |
| Walter Burns | says | You got that absolutely right, LEMills. And lilyhill is also right; its amazing how much music I thrown out, over the lyrics, for the kids |
| JDHP | says | wow this plurk is still going? COOL! |
| A_NYRican | says | Or use the word themselves. It's the education of parents - the community as a whole that needs to change. But banning is not the way. |
| Camping Lisa | says | SquireHogg that I think we teach people how to treat (or call us) so if we use words for ourselves that our offensive from others..it sends |
| Camping Lisa | says | confusing messages... |
| Camping Lisa | says | I think this is not where we were going with this thread... |
| Camping Lisa | says | |
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