davidalston says join us now - "Plurkshop" on social media monitoring/metrics - everyone welcome.

490 responses to this plurk.

• 
  July 10, 2008 at 17:57 davidalston says this is the plurk page - www.plurk.com/p/18etd
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 17:58 AmberCadabra note: if you're on the plurk page above, you'll have to refresh manually.
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 17:58 pritcharddesign is Hi David
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 17:58 sweet2685 hello!
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 17:58 pchaney says Hi David
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 17:58 AmberCadabra You can also use the plurkify room (more like a chat room) here: rooms.plurkify.com/18etd Login with your PlurkID and pwd (it's safe)
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 17:59 ThoughtWrong says hello hello
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 17:59 pierrefar Hi First time here.
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 17:59 anniemal oh, this is a genius idea
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:00 martinbogo doesn't seem to work in FF3
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:00 Teeg Hi everyone
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:00 karllong is hi
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:00 martinbogo I'm logged in, but can't seem to post
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:00 tipzu says hey! I'm ready.
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:01 Teeg says martin, I'm seeing your posts.
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:01 giggey says hi all, tried plurkify but I can't seem to post.
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:02 ThoughtWrong says cant post at plurkify
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:02 davidalston says hi all, the room seems to be blocking my posts as well. Will do this from the plurk page instead (yay, refresh)
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:02 martinbogo I also can't post on Plurkify
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:02 Connie Here is the link to the plurk page: www.plurk.com/p/18etd
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:02 davidalston says to tdefren - no worries
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:03 MackCollier says hi guys, and thanks for hosting David!
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:03 martinbogo There was a change in the API today ...
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:03 Connie If you load the Plurk page, you will have to manually refresh. If you follow it in your timeline, it should auto-refresh.
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:03 davidalston says let's do this on the plurk page and abandon plurkify room as it's having troubles.
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:04 pchaney is wondering how he's going to monitor this and Chris Brogan's webinar.
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:04 AmberCadabra love technology sometimes.
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:04 Debra Simpson says hello
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:05 IamGay! says hello
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:05 davidalston says sorry pchaney - bad timing - we didn't know about the conflict in advance.
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:05 contrapuntist is hello
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:05 davidalston says well let's kick this off.
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:05 danalookadoo is also watching CrossTech Webinar on 2nd monitor
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:05 bhamlibby says hello
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:05 pritcharddesign is wondering how I'm going to manage the plurkshop & webinar, too!
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:05 BarbaraKB wishes davidalston well. You know I'm a Radian6 fan.
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:06 davidalston asks what are the reasons to measure social media?
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:06 MackCollier says danalookadoo is showing off
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:06 pchaney says a pox upon Chris Brogan!
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:06 AmberCadabra Everyone wants that special word: ROI
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:06 davidalston loves barbaraKB 's compliment
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:06 AmberCadabra i spend X and I get Y.
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:07 Connie ROI is the magic word people are looking for and it is much harder to quantify/qualify with social media.
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:07 Greg Hollingsworth Measuring social media depends on what you're using it for, in the marketing world we measure for monetization
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:07 davidalston shares something great I read - do you want to measure the "social" or the "media"
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:08 contrapuntist says the magic word: ROI
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:08 pchaney says Measurement is not only about $, but about lending credibility to social media as a marketnig tool.
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:08 potsie says the reasons are similar to why we measure traditional media - clients want to know "how they did"
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:08 Connie Excellent distinction.
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:08 pierrefar says surely it's both - the "channel" if you will?
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:08 MackCollier says great point David
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:08 davidalston good point potsie
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:09 Greg Hollingsworth there is a distinct need to measure social as it relates to media.
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:09 MackCollier says I think the biggest source of confusion is that cos see Social Media as being marketing, and want 2 apply same metrics
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:09 davidalston When we treat it like a "media" do we lean towards the ROI measurements?
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:09 Chad Spacey has very nice
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:09 giggey says someone told me once that instead of thinking of return on investment, think about return on initiative to get the complete picture
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:10 storyspinner trouble is coming from the "search" background, so many clients are thinking it's about links and measuring that.. when that's not it's goal
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:10 6consulting says I'm in
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:10 pritcharddesign I agree with pchaney, as well. A history needs to be created to convince clients.
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:10 davidalston Marketing metrics - are they more one way metrics?
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:10 AmberCadabra I think you have to measure SM more like you to BizDev, where not every interaction is going to have a tangible vlue
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:10 pchaney says in order for it to gain wide acceptance social media will have to prove its value in terms of ROI
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:10 MackCollier says the prob is cos want to immediately know what they will get back, but it takes time to get quantifiable results
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:10 MackCollier says like it took Dell 2 years to see blog mentions fall so dramatically that they could tell their SM efforts were working
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:11 BarbaraKB has found *vital* to determine measurement standards from start. Not always easy to establish. Try to keep simple.
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:11 AmberCadabra and how do you mollify a CMO that wants impact right now?
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:11 davidalston social media = relationships = time to develop ?
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:11 storyspinner so to a degree, the measurement, someone needs to be a cross between PR measuring & web analytics
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:11 Greg Hollingsworth The issue I see most often is trying to define SM in terms of direct marketing, it has to be able to show something in terms of ROI
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:12 MackCollier says right, you make money with social media INdirectly, not directly. Many cos can't wrap their heads around that
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:12 pchaney says yep, sm is not a "campaign," but an ongoing conversation. Got t b n it for the long term.
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:12 storyspinner err.. somewhat needs to be (in my last plurk)
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:12 nowsourcing says greetings all. My updates aren't showing up in the Plurkify room
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:12 AmberCadabra davidalston YES. but then it's "ok how much time, and then still, how do you show me success"
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:12 contrapuntist agrees with MackCollier most clients expect results ASAP, when they don't see results right away, frustration builds
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:12 davidalston good point Mack - Barbara - what are some of the standards you use?
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:12 MackCollier says if used properly, SM leads to more connections with customers, more feedback, which means more efficient (costs less) marketing
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:12 pritcharddesign absolutely. Companies want instant results. Social media is long term.
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:13 AmberCadabra nowsourcing seems to be an issue there. we've all headed for the plurk page
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:13 davidalston nowsourcing - just use the plurk page www.plurk.com/p/18etd Plurkify not working now.
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:13 pierrefar says What about trends? If we can't use the absolute numbers, we can at least look at how they trend over time.
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:13 MackCollier says cos want to think of social media as being marketing channels to monetize, not as communication channels
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:13 contrapuntist the "indirect" impact MackCollier mentions is one reason why some orgs think SM is a waste of time
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:14 Greg Hollingsworth says trying to convince old school direct marketers of the value of social media can be very difficult in my experience
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:14 karenswim says my posts were not showing up in plurkify either
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:14 Greg Hollingsworth thinks that to do so you have to create very malleable goals that your SM cam[paign is trying to reach
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:14 AmberCadabra I think like making money from SM, other results are more indirect
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:14 karenswim says contrapuntist the indirect is why some orgs don't "get" much of marketing
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:14 AmberCadabra shorter sales cycle, maybe. more repeat clients/referrals. better customer service feedback.
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:15 Teeg thinks it's like Connie said once, How do you measure the usefulness of company get togethers?
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:15 pchaney says MackCollier - Can't it be both? "Markets are conversations"
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:15 Teeg says SM is just as useful (or more) and just as hard to measure accurately.
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:15 potsie says storyspinner - it may be about links for some clients. Measuring social media means different things for different clients.
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:15 karenswim says Greg, agreed or you are aiming at unclear target and effort is not results
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:15 LaShae says direct marketers want immediate roi - what is immediate about SM
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:16 sweet2685 So, how do you convince clients that SM will give them positive results?
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:16 karllong is i think the problem is that social media has such a broad scope and affects so many aspects of business
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:16 danalookadoo wants to understand how to capture data on relationships. And does anyone want to feel their relationship is being measured?
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:16 karllong is SM in the context of new product development very different than PR around a product launch
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:16 Greg Hollingsworth wishes he could get DM people to understand that SM is the ultimate form of one-on-one direct marketing
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:17 AmberCadabra maybe it's a goalsetting issue: not understanding really what the endgame should be from your efforts in SM aside from just revenue.
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:17 contrapuntist thinks there needs to be a greater differentiation between engagement versus making the sale
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:17 karenswim says as we blend the disciplines of SEO, SMO and SM it becomes more complex
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:17 davidalston sweet2685 - convince them it's more about relationships than marketing (hard to do but key)
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:18 DaveWebb says Howdy all, a little late.
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:18 pritcharddesign thinks SM is also potentially more effective purely due to access to people who are listening!
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:18 MackCollier says Paul when you try to directly monetize SM, you run into probs, IMO. Have to provide value first, then connections come and then money
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:18 Connie asks DavidAlston How can monitoring/measuring tools like Radian6 help us convince clients of the value of SM?
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:18 storyspinner defining what the "R" is of the "ROI" is the true issue when it comes to social media
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:18 Greg Hollingsworth Karen, exactly. I had to figure ways to define success out of the normal CPA acquisition targets we run on
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:18 AmberCadabra i don't understand why many folks embrace BD as relationship building, but not SM
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:18 sschablow asks is customer satisfaction and loyalty a metric that has short term results that corp types understand?
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:19 potsie says sweet2685 Define "positive results" with the client. How do they define success - more visitors, sales, links, etc.
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:19 Teeg thinks you also have to convince them that relationships are important, David
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:19 Greg Hollingsworth SM in marketing bears more resemblance to PR than to standard marketing, it's this shift that is hard to sell sometimes
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:20 giggey says it's about relationships and can't put a price on the real relationships.If you build them with $$ as a bottom line, they aren't as valuable
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:20 bhamlibby asks is social media similar to general branding by way of measurement? hard to quantify, but also crucial to engaging public perception.
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:20 davidalston connie - mapping out influencers, tracking effectiveness of outreach over time, showing share of brand buzz vs. competitors etc...
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:20 karenswim says Amber I honestly believe it is the labeling itself that delivers the perception
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:20 BarbaraKB says (need to leave. phone socnet fire - yikes!)
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:20 Connie Good point, Greg, about SM and PR in contrast to traditional marketing.
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:20 pchaney says mackcollier - I misspoke with last statement. I'm not thinking of marketing specifically in DM terms.
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:21 Greg Hollingsworth sschablow, it depends on how the client already measures those things, it may be, but not an easy sell
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:21 karenswim says if it were called BDM, people would not immed dismiss as a "time suck"
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:21 potsie says thepunk So true. Coming from the PR side, some of our clients probably think "that's an ad/marketing function..."
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:21 davidalston good point karenswim - we are starting to refer to social media as the social web (dropping the media)
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:22 AmberCadabra karen davidalston but i almost think its the "social" that's the problem, not the "media"
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:22 Connie agrees that the term social media has been a sticking point for many.
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:22 Greg Hollingsworth it doesn't matter what you call it, DM people still want hard measurable stats that tell them what they're getting out of it in $
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:22 AmberCadabra "social" has a casual connotation that undermines its credibility in the business world
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:22 davidalston What would you measure other than ROI?
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:23 pchaney says As to need for SM, if our customer base is there (think Forrester technographics) how can we not be, regardless of direct monetary benefit.
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:23 pritcharddesign thinks many marketers are also waiting to see if social media (web) will end up being more than a buzz word.
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:23 Greg Hollingsworth I think for many DM people they equate social media with social networking and see it as an ad space and little more
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:23 contrapuntist asks ambercadabra what do you mean by social vs. media?
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:23 Connie I remind ppl that "social" simply refers to people as opposed to "computer". They understand computer networks. Social media is people net
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:23 MackCollier says but at the same time, the term 'social media' is what everyone is used to. If you change it, then it confuses and dilutes meaning IMO
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:23 pritcharddesign thinks we know it already is
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:23 davidalston ambercadabra - also a good point
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:23 MackCollier says a lot of people hate the term 'web 2.0', but everyone is used to it, why change boats now?
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:24 giggey says tone of the conversation, like ideastorm...number of new ideas
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:24 AmberCadabra contrapuntist i mean in the term "social media", it's the "social" part that throws people off
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:24 sschablow says Greg Hollingsworth good point. Most of my clients do at least an annual brand awareness study. Only a few do cust satisfaction
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:24 danalookadoo thinks storyspinner has point about R of ROI. R should be redefined - Relationships, Opportunity, Investment
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:24 Connie says pchaney raises a good point. What is the cost of NOT being in the social media/web space?
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:24 pritcharddesign thinks the business world needs to catch up with the people.
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:24 davidalston certainly it mostly describes "online conversations" IMO
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:24 AmberCadabra mackcollier I don't think we need to change the term, i think we need to redefine what "social" means in this space
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:25 pchaney thinks that he prefers the term "conversational media" better.
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:25 davidalston danalookadoo - very nice - sounds like a great future blog post
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:25 Connie says Or should we change the I of ROI. Return on involvement.
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:25 AmberCadabra connie it depends on if your community is there or not. But if they are, you'll be left behind because your competitors are doing it.
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:25 Teeg thinks you have a good point AmberCadabra
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:25 MackCollier says Connie that's the prob, many cos wont bother with SM till they see a competitor makin hay with it
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:26 giggey says jowyang has a post today about the differences between social media and communities...there's another term for us
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:26 davidalston Wow, nice as well connie
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:26 potsie thinks consumer generated media morphed into social media will morph into another term...
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:26 Connie Mack, that means we need more case studies to show SM successes.
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:26 AmberCadabra age old issue of be a trailblazer or a follower. but being a trailblazer carries risk of failure, which turns companies off.
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:26 Greg Hollingsworth Community Building is the best description I can think of to describe how SM can be used as a marketing tool
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:27 karenswim says davidalston online conversations but also reputation/brand mgmt
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:27 davidalston mackcollier - good point - any examples to share?
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:27 Telemill MarkCollier hits the nail on the head with this issue.
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:27 Greg Hollingsworth SM is about community, trust, transparency and engagement. These are all things that good companies should be willing to embrace
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:27 pchaney says we need to send copies of GroundSwell to every CEO!
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:27 storyspinner connie.. now that's a great point
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:27 Teeg giggey he also has one on the importance of conversation. LOL I don't think he appreciated my comments on Twitter.
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:28 AmberCadabra agrees that we need to get vigilant with capturing and sharing case studies among this community
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:28 karenswim says agree with connie more case studies are needed
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:28 Connie Goes back to similarity with PR - SM helps build good will. Cannot easily measure that, but you know when you don't have it.
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:28 Telemill Until there are 'examples', clear examples of companies using social media for gain, there will always be this issue.
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:28 AbleReach says I like connie's Return On Involvement
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:28 MackCollier says right, I am sick of talking about Dell
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:28 pchaney says the Groundswell is replete with case studies.
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:29 karenswim says Like return on involvement connie!
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:29 Connie Groundswell is a great resource.
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:29 potsie feels thepunk is right, but it's more than building communities - it's also listening/monitoring to gauge interests/likes/dislikes. Listen first
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:29 Telemill I think its also an issue of education. College courses are remiss in teaching students the "need" the true effectiveness of networks.
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:29 pchaney says mackcollier - Well, there's Starbucks
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:29 MackCollier says paul I thought it was very interesting how in Groundswell they broke down exact cost and money that GM made from its blog in first year
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:29 Greg Hollingsworth the problem with case studies is that they can't be readily applied across industry segments
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:29 AmberCadabra connie you're onto something there. maybe it's not measuring the "what do we get" but "what are we missing if we don't"
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:29 davidalston what are some good examples of companies listening and engaging in social media?
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:29 karllong is yeah, that and the Cluetrain, and Here Comes Everybody
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:29 danalookadoo wants to know if there is a good way to explain SM without using terms we, the insiders, use. Layman's explanation?
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:30 Telemill Seriously, if we looked at companies and individuals that we deem successful . . . what do they have that others don't?
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:30 Greg Hollingsworth sorry, I meant across *all* industry segments, thus they aren't always useful
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:30 AbleReach asks is sm more like the networking behind the scenes of face to face marketing, in that you need to know what's happening w/audience & friends
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:30 Telemill Control of a network.
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:30 Connie has anyone tried to use Stowe Boyd's formula for Conversation Quotient? It looks at comments/trackbacks in ration to # of blog posts.
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:30 AbleReach asks and audience/friends need to know what's going on with you? (unlike straight SEO)
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:30 karenswim says telemill agreed however think of other mktng efforts such as trade shows not always a 1:1 but cos understand need 2 participate in key shows
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:30 AmberCadabra Greg in literal terms, maybe not, but we need to help companies understand the undercurrents that exist regarless of industry
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:30 Greg Hollingsworth good question David
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:31 karllong thinks Plurk needs threading, that would make this much more usable for long discussions like this
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:31 MackCollier says i polled my blog readers a couple of weeks ago, the content they most wanted to see was social media case studies
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:31 MackCollier says everyone wants to see the potential quantified
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:31 Beth Harte says hi all, furiously reading....
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:31 Greg Hollingsworth AmberCadabra agreed, there need to be more readily accessible success stories
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:31 davidalston asks can you measure the importance of listening? OR is it the essence of what all biz's need to be doing?
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:32 MackCollier says I think if Dell can ever directly tie a concrete growth in sales/business back to social media, that it will be huge
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:32 sschablow says even the best case studies I've seen use involvement as the metric for success. Hard to convince corp to invest $$ w/o business case.
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:32 AbleReach asks SEO relates to dominating a search result & demonstrating trust, not so much in a relationship that will make people search for YOU
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:32 potsie says that Toyota is a good example: townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.f0c20c4 They engage on the Edmunds boards.
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:32 giggey thinks that once we see more empirical research in academic journals we'll have a better case. Need objective, empirical research
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:32 DaveWebb Me too, bethharte. Trying to keep up. Plurk not refreshing live for me.
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:32 MackCollier says and I know about dell outlet on twitter, i am talking about showing how their spending time interacting in this space = %growth
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:32 pchaney says davidalston - not including Dell, there's Natl. Comp. Cancer Network
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:33 Connie Dell can point to approx. $500K in direct sales from their Twitter account.
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:33 AmberCadabra davidalston i think that's preaching to the choir, here. two ears one mouth and all that.
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:33 seerysm says my focus is on employer branding and we assess & monitor the # of and tone of SM mentions related to a company and employment
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:33 sschablow says davidalston good point on 'listening'. there are good cases of co's that listen and provide new/better prod/svcs that became profitable.
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:33 Telemill MackCollier and there lays the problem. The method is really "too new" to have a variety of case studies that would satisfy their need
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:33 karllong says mackcollier the content and examples are out there Dell, Threadless, Yelp, Fiskerters lots of case studies
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:33 MackCollier says Connie, if they can ever point to sales from Richard and Lionel being on Twitter, then we have something HUGE
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:33 Telemill . . . for undeniable "proof"
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:33 danalookadoo wants to know if someone has put together SM case studies? Zappos is awesome. WholeFoods sharing food info on Twitter.
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:34 potsie thinks yes, you can davidalston Show companies how they missed opportunities by not listening. Show them traffic #s on boards that matter.
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:34 AbleReach asks so SEO = research serps, & sm = influencer of decisions that come after or parallel to research.
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:34 karenswim says what about Zappos?
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:34 Greg Hollingsworth Southwest has done a fair job using the space, but I don't know if they could tie revenue to it.
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:34 Connie NOTE: You will probably have to manually refresh your Plurk timeline or the Plurk page. www.plurk.com/p/18etd
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:34 AmberCadabra sschablow I think the issue is in convincing the companies that they NEED the involvement. Many don't think it's necessary.
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:34 karllong says I think the issue is cultural, in a big company the people responsible in PR and Mktg are the most threatened by loss of control
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:34 davidalston asks mackCollier - Dell rev up 20% EPS up 29% but still need to find the "tie" to social media
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:34 seerysm says and then we look at how that changes over time (the number and tone) as participation increases
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:34 MackCollier says and speaking of Zappos, its great that they are all over twitter, now how has that increased sales? we all think it has, but numbers?
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:35 Greg Hollingsworth I know H&R Block claims to have seen a boost from their efforts, although I find it hard to believe they saw a significant increase
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:35 MackCollier says David, exactly! We *think* their being in SM is working, but we need proof to convince the naysayers
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:35 Telemill karllong - ding, ding ding!
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:35 Connie Mack, how can you tie a great story in WSJ about your product to bottom line impact of sales? Same with SM.
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:35 davidalston amberCadabra - funny eh - companies would never question "involvement" with incoming phone calls
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:35 karllong says davidalston look at the amount of ideas on ideastorm over the course of time, tie that to rise in EPS
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:36 pchaney says GM Fast Lane blog was as much about listening as speaking.
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:36 giggey thinks we need to make the leap from correlation to causality. We have examples of succesful Cos, who also use social media.need to prove causality
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:36 MackCollier says naysayers say 'show me the money, or shut up'
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:36 DaveWebb I agree, Amber. There has to be a demonstration of value. Common ROI metrics don't always do that
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:36 AmberCadabra the prob is, the path of community back from SM channels to the company can be a winding one
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:36 MackCollier says Connie good point
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:36 sschablow says H&R Block has stated that they are in SM for the long haul as a long-term strategy to build younger client base.
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:36 Beth Harte says karllong those mktrs and PR folks need to learn that they lost control long ago.
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:36 karenswim says mack w/Zappos I also wonder if the twitter participation has + impact on employee value which leads to greater customer satisfaction
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:37 davidalston mackCollier - perhaps further integration of social media into all aspects of biz and systems can track the ties.
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:37 contrapuntist wonders if the tie between SM and link to $$ is integrating as a support for other marketing efforts
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:37 AmberCadabra davidalston no kidding. but they don't want their customers necessarily giving them feedback, just sales
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:37 pchaney says I think it's undeniable that retail sites that have ratings and reviews exp. bump in traffic, engagement and....sales.
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:37 MackCollier says David good point, like does letting employees use these tools increase morale?
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:37 davidalston ambercadabra -
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:38 Connie thinks PR missed the boat by not taking the lead in SM. They are more accustomed to measuring "soft" benefits of their work.
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:38 Greg Hollingsworth sschablow, that's true. But they're approaching it with a definite DM approach, they're not listening unless they hear certain words
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:38 Telemill sschablow points something out that is a problem in the US, well a problem with corps in the US -- long-term strategies
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:38 MackCollier says I am loving the discussion guys, great stuff!
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:38 denise205 asks karenswim, so is the measurement we need one of customer satisfaction?
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:38 AbleReach asks remember those phone company ads where a busy signal symbolized losing business? We need a pr campaign like that for SM
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:39 Teeg says I wonder how many companies look at newspapers and say using SM didn't help them, why should we expect it to either.
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:39 Telemill US corps are notorious for not engaging and taking seriously -- long-term strategies.
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:39 davidalston mackcollier - or if someone is looking to buy "x" and you reach out and connect and end up with sale (tying this to the outreach)
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:39 AmberCadabra connie you're so right. the irony is that my newest client is a PR firm because they now realize they've been left behind
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:39 Greg Hollingsworth Great point Connie. I've been trying to convince our PR people to get on board for over a year. Its as if they resent SM at this point
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:39 Connie says Contrapuntist has good point about seeing SM as *support* for other marketing
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:39 potsie Connie PR folks use ad equivalency to bring some sort of measure to WSJ stories and the like. Not perfect, but it's a $$ figure to report.
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:39 karenswim says MackCollier and increase that connection they feel to the "value" of their job which is proven morale booster
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:39 Telemill This is why Toyota is #1 now, because they make it company CULTURE to think 40 years down the line. Not tomorrow, not 5 years from now, 40.
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:39 AmberCadabra thinks i have my hands full with this recap! LOL
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:40 potsie thinks Connie needs to check out some of the PR-lead SM projects that are out there. Plenty of PR "gets" SM and uses it well.
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:40 Greg Hollingsworth good point Telemill. However, it's easier to plan long term when you have coffers the size of Toyota's
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:40 AmberCadabra potsie I'd love to see those. Do you hav examples?
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:40 DaveWebb Teeg re:newspapers True to those who don't get it, but no so for those who do.
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:41 karenswim says Telemill yes, yes! Focus on long term just as you do with your $
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:41 davidalston telemill - good example
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:41 Connie asks DavidAlston Can you address potsie's point about PR using "ad equivalency" to measure. Any analogy to SM?
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:41 Beth Harte shares PR uses impressions too. That might be a measurement that can be used in SM too that PR folks can relate to.
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:42 giggey thinks the people from PerkettPR do a good job using SM tools
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:42 sschablow says telemill with the average CMO tenure at 18 months, there is no reason to have long-term strategy.
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:42 Connie says "potsie" agree that many PR people now "get" social media. But by and large PR has been very slow to adopt SM.
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:42 karenswim says denise205 I think that is a part of measuring customer engagement
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:42 Beth Harte asks connie, that's the "soft" metric.
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:42 AmberCadabra sschablow Whoa. New plurkshop topic THERE LOL
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:42 Connie SHIFT communications is another example of PR company using social media tools.
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:42 MackCollier says but I think as companies hire more younger workers that are more familiar with social sites/tools, cultures will become more open
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:42 Telemill GregHollingsworth, see? That's the US thinking I was talking about. The funny part of that is they BEGAN with long-term thinking.
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:43 potsie AmberCadabra Full disclosure that my employer put this together: www.imsaturn.com/
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:43 DaveWebb Case for newspapers - mommy bloggers have had huge impact on Cincinnati Enquirer
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:43 davidalston connie - good question - point to consider with SM is that it's more like 2 way communication device than a media. U agree?
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:43 giggey thinks Thornley Fallis another PR example
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:43 pchaney says connie and ad agencies even slower.
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:43 Connie When it comes to "impressions" to measure PR, that's where tools like Radian6, or even the standard Google Alert, can help quantify SM.
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:44 Greg Hollingsworth In my specific case, the issue has been trying to impress on DM folks the importance of brand expansion through SM as cost effective
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:44 contrapuntist potsie what I am talking about is allowing a word of mouth strategy to dictate communications planning
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:44 bhamlibby thinks from what i've heard/seen on the whole, most ad agencies are making SM part of PR.
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:44 pchaney says to reflect on davidalston 's question earlier SM has given us the ability to make listening an art and science.
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:45 contrapuntist ... that means incorporating all other marketing elements which include SM and PR and all others
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:45 Connie davidalston, agree that SM is 2-way rather than tradtl. media.
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:45 AmberCadabra contrapuntist Do you mean allowing the community to lead your strategy and allow it to evolve based on them?
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:45 epodcaster says I'm late to this, but I have to agree with connie. The I is Involvement. Getting business to understand this is key
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:45 DebInDenver says I am giving up. I wrote a number of PR related plurks and none of them showed up in the thread. Look forward to the recap.
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:45 pchaney says and listening is the basis for everything else. Hence, if nothing else, SM has a place there.
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:45 Greg Hollingsworth In my specific case, the issue has been trying to impress on DM folks the importance of brand expansion through SM as cost effective
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:46 contrapuntist no.. there is disconnect between SM and all other disciplines
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:46 giggey thinks it still comes down to obj of research. Lots of whitepapers and case studies from vendors. Great start, now we need more
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:46 AmberCadabra bhamlibby but on the same front I see a lot of ad agencies using it to push content, but not to drive their clients to engage
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:46 Greg Hollingsworth In my specific case, the issue has been trying to impress on DM folks the importance of brand expansion through SM as cost effective
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:46 contrapuntist what I mean is think about how SM as a tool supports what you hope to achieve
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:47 Greg Hollingsworth SM is about engagement, and Amber is right, too often it is used to push content, not to start discussions
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:47 Connie got logged out somehow. Plurk has the hiccups.
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:47 davidalston Things you can measure are social dynamics on posts (comment count, views, unique commenters, level of engagement) and relationships2 others
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:47 sschablow says Chris Brogan and his guest now talking about SM and ROI in webinar.
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:47 davidalston connie, I was also booted out. Back now.
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:47 epodcaster says every business wants raving fans. SM is the way to not only find them but to connect with them.
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:48 DaveWebb davidalston agree that it is more like 2-way communication, but also is means of distribution.
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:48 Connie contrapuntist if I understand right, your point is that SM is distinct from all other disciplines in that it exists to support them?
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:48 Greg Hollingsworth another part of the problem is the integration of DM into SM spaces (e.g. Beacon on Facebook)
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:48 davidalston sschablow - lets do a cross platform connection to them - that would be cool.
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:48 epodcaster says So perhaps the Return on Involvement is the discovery of the raving fans?
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:48 davidalston greg Hollingsworth - tell us more...
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:49 Greg Hollingsworth doesn't SM have to be 2-way communication to be SM? One person speaking to an empty room isn't very social
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:49 Teeg got logged out too, Connie. Not sure what's going on with it.
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:49 Connie Plurk is updating API and we may experience some technical difficulties. If necessary, log back in & go here: www.plurk.com/p/18etd
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:49 bhamlibby AmberCadabra, that's def. true, I think many are using old techniques just puttin them in 'new media', which doesnt work.
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:49 davidalston epodcaster - "the longtail" and influencer discover process is very valuable to any brand
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:49 potsie agree contrapuntist but some companies aren't ready for it. Use WoM to learn interests if customers and then fold back into programs
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:49 karenswim says I'm back in are we still live?
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:50 Greg Hollingsworth I work for a small company that exists solely due to DM, we can't afford traditional "brand advertising"
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:50 storyspinner thought that logging out was just me..
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:50 MackCollier says or is it Return on Interaction?
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:50 Telemill No, plurk had problems we all got booted.
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:51 Greg Hollingsworth SM has the ability to be a very cost effective form of brand advertising (minus the advertising portion)but they still see it in terms of DM
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:51 contrapuntist connie my point is that because many orgs don't get it, perhaps thinking of it as a support for other activities might help biz understand
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:51 Connie Mack, I said Involvement, but Interaction is another good word.
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:51 Telemill Wait, wait . . . let's go back to the "engaging" statements. The 2-way communication idea.
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:51 MackCollier says should we call it Return on Interaction?
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:51 davidalston Greg, many other companies (Radian6 included) have primarily relied on SM and WOM for the same reasons to build their brand.
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:51 DaveWebb Greg Hollingsworth Don't you think SM enables branding for small biz?
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:52 Telemill Do you think THAT is the fear? This is a 2-way communication, that companies really don't want to "engage", they just want to
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:52 contrapuntist connie has the distinct advantage that traditional media doesn't you can track response to what ever is out there
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:52 sschablow says care to try and measure interaction? Quality of experience, time spent, attitude change?
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:52 pchaney says in trad. media marketing ROI stands for "Return On Interruption"; now, that's not working so well.
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:52 Greg Hollingsworth but the more DM programs SM sites put it into place, the more it muddies the waters for DM folk, who see it as DM and not as engagement
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:52 davidalston markcollier - also a great ROI definition
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:52 contrapuntist er. Meant to say SM has the distinct advantage
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:52 giggey has to head out...thanks all!
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:52 Telemill quickly make the product/service and move on to making more money. Because when you say 2-way, engagement, relationship that DOES
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:52 LaShae says @ dave more than just 2 way communication it's a way to find out what needs to be *distributed* ie what information r those talking, missing
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:52 epodcaster says MackCollier: Yes it is. ROI in the "Web 2.0" world is Return on Interaction/Return on Involvement which leads to Return on Investment
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:52 pchaney says because shouting doesn't work, and people are talking to each other, SM engagement is a matter of self-defense.
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:52 Greg Hollingsworth DaveWebb of course, unless you've spent the whole of it's existence relying on DM
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:52 Telemill mean more time and effort.
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:53 Connie Contrapuntist your point is interesting; I do see how SM can serve a support function for various disciplines.
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:53 DaveWebb Man, I have a serious delay. Making it almost impossible to keep up. have to refresh manually constantly.
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:53 davidalston ambercadabra - definitely awesome ROI definitions coming out of today. Very cool.
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:53 sschablow says MackCollier interaction would be great. It's like ad biz discussion of measuring 'engagement'
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:53 Teeg has a thought building that isn't fully developed yet, but what if trying to show a return is the problem.
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:54 davidalston thx giggey
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:54 Greg Hollingsworth SM can be an awesome branding tool for small business, but if your boss is an old school direct marketer it can be hard to sell to them
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:54 Teeg what if instead you show the cost of NOT using SM?
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:54 Beth Harte says epodcaster, I use that next time someone asks me why... ROI/I/I
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:54 AmberCadabra davidalston I'm so grateful this is all bookmark-able.
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:54 Connie Teeg, I like that idea - but how do you quanityf the cost of NOT being engaged?
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:55 pchaney says DaveWebb - I think it's hard for small biz to gain enough attention; depending on their prod/service of course.
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:55 Beth Harte says GregHollingsworth, I am planning on using DM to promote SM. There is potential measurement in that to make folks who like numbers happy.
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:55 MackCollier says i think cos need to realize that with social media, they have to get their hands dirty, they have to provide value
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:55 Greg Hollingsworth Teeg, is that any different than showing the cost OF using SM?
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:55 davidalston Greg, as long as you can show a connection to potential customers each week you'll stay alive
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:55 karenswim says Connie Teeg exactly, it still returns to concrete metrics, you lose X for NOT participating
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:55 Jane Chin says I deal with the ROI problem in my niche segment (medical influence) and no matter what RO(x) you call it, it all comes down to:
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:56 epodcaster says pchaney: I couldnt' agree more. I am so OVER being talked/shouted AT. Talk WITH me. Listen and interact.
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:56 Jane Chin says I deal with the ROI problem in my niche segment (medical influence) and no matter what RO(x) you call it, it all comes down to
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:56 Jane Chin says MONEY saved or money earned.
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:56 Beth Harte says pchaney, amen! It is hard...
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:56 Greg Hollingsworth bethharte I've been down that road, it worked, just not well enough to continue down the path for our company
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:56 davidalston mackcollier - good point. Imagine taking $millions from ad budget and employing 1000's of people to listen and engage?
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:56 potsie must run - interesting discussion.
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:56 Jane Chin says (sorry for the hiccup. using plurk page)
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:56 AmberCadabra is it just me, or do some of these companies seem downright afraid of conversing with their customers?
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:56 karenswim says Mack right and that IS the problem for many
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:56 Connie David, what can be measured to show engagement? Comments on blog posts? Links on Twitter? Mentions in online media?
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:57 Beth Harte says ...but SM helps when not a lot of budget dollars are available. As well, it's easier for SMBs to give up control & welcome interaction.
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:57 Greg Hollingsworth davidalston can I get that in writing so I can show it to our VP of Marketing?
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:57 contrapuntist AmberCadabra in my experience thus far, yes
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:57 Jane Chin says mackcollier I do think companies believe they are providing value with their "push" mentality. Perhaps need to define "what" value to "whom
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:57 karenswim says janechin good point!
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:57 Teeg Amber, they do. Even now, many will write blog and leave the comments off
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:57 pritcharddesign thinks yes, they're afraid. They're used to preplanning their message.
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:57 epodcaster says bethharte: Plurkshops are a great way to brainstorm concepts/ideas. I call it a "Braingasm" when it happens like this.
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:58 Greg Hollingsworth bethharte that depends on how you use the DM in relation to the SM
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:58 Teeg Greg, yes, it's different. Sometimes it's possible to prove someone isn't guilty without proving they're innocent.
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:58 Telemill AmberCadabra "afraid of conversing with their customers" ding, ding, ding!
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:58 MackCollier says BTW almost 400 replies in first hour in middle of the day is amazing
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:58 Jane Chin pritcharddesign also any deviations in expected customer response means going back to square 1 and that's a lot of mtgs to attend again
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:58 Beth Harte asks what about NPS and CLV, has anyone used those metrics yet?
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:58 davidalston connie - inside SM - # comments, # posts, views, length of comments, on topic inbound linking etc...
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:59 Greg Hollingsworth Great point Connie, how do we measure "connections to customers" that we can't necessarily attach a $ to?
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:59 ConnieBensen I was reading but missed a big chunk in the middle
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:59 Jane Chin why don't we use this plurkshop as an example and see what ROI could be? for ex. out 395 how much signal how much noise for whom to do what?
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:59 Teeg says Plurks autocomplete isn't working
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:59 karenswim says what about the service aspect of SM? One could argue it is an extension of customer service
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:59 LaShae says Teeg Amber definitely corps are in the business of control and that is how they got where they are - engrained habit is hard to give up
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:59 davidalston mackcollier - yes, awesome discussion all. I think we wanted to keep it to an hour. Shall we wrap up?
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 18:59 AmberCadabra janechin that's why cos have to take off the lead boots and learn to be more nimble. trad marketing makes for a slower reaction
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 19:00 Connie davidalston So there are a lot of things we can measure w/ SM, the question is assigning a $ value to it for those who insist on hard numbr
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 19:00 Beth Harte says AmberCadabra, yes! They are afraid! I have seen it first hand...with sales folks. Won't ask questions as simple as 'do you have a budget?'
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 19:00 bhamlibby AmberCadabra and Telemill, yes i think co. fear is one of the biggiest obstacles!
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 19:00 Greg Hollingsworth has it been an hour? hardly feels like it
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 19:00 Jane Chin AmberCadabra agreed, but logistically the size of the co./mrkg dept becomes the factor to agility.
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 19:00 contrapuntist the tricky the some corps is moving past legal departments
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 19:01 AmberCadabra has it really been an hour? dang!
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 19:01 Jane Chin contrapuntist do you mean corporate compliance is a roadblock?
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 19:01 davidalston connie - yes, this is where the ability to analyze across a topic, time, against competitors, etc.. can help to quantify investment
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 19:01 Beth Harte asks Could we do a PlurkShop on NPS and CLV? Are they viable? How have they been used, etc. Thanks for the PlurkShop! Excellent as usual.
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 19:01 pchaney says got to go...thanks for great convo; can't wait for AmberCadabra 's wrapup.
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 19:01 karenswim says great discussion, hour flew by!
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 19:02 davidalston ambercadabra - time flies when you're havin' fun...
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 19:02 Connie Agree that it barely feels like an hour and we even had to battle the Plurk hiccups. Awesome conversation. We need a part 2!
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 19:02 Greg Hollingsworth the trick with many DM'ers is convincing them that they've already "lost control" and holding on tighter won't help
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 19:02 Jane Chin oh well.... got in for the tail 5 mins
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 19:02 Telemill We need a plurkshop on overcoming companies' fear of 2-way communication and letting go of the PUSH mentality.
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 19:02 AmberCadabra all, pls email me at amber@altitudebranding.com if there's something you wanted to contribute but couldn't
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 19:02 davidalston wishes everyone a great rest of the day - thanks for the great discussion all.
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 19:02 sschablow says really enjoyed the discussion. Thanks to all for taking time and sharing.
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 19:02 Connie Thank you so much davidalston.
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 19:02 Greg Hollingsworth great conversation, just wish there hadn't have been so many plurk-ups
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 19:02 pchaney says many mini-convos going on at same time; need multiple threads to keep up. k, bye!
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 19:02 contrapuntist janechin yes in a way, whenever I have drafted something for a biz in response, it has to go through approval process
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 19:03 AmberCadabra I'd be up for a part 2, i think there's so much still to talk about
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 19:03 AmberCadabra davidalston, many thanks for your time and insight today.
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 19:03 Jane Chin contrapuntist agreed. I work with pharma companies (compliance is huge) and some have begun using adherence to compliance as a metric.
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 19:03 contrapuntist sheesh I can't type fast enought today
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 19:03 karenswim says Thanks davidalston and all, this was time well spent.
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 19:03 davidalston wishes ambercadabra - I'm up for a part 2 as well if you'd like. Let me know. Glad to help out.
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 19:04 Connie Amber, I think we barely scratched the surface. This is a very important topic to many of us.
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 19:04 bhamlibby bye - enjoyed it!
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 19:04 AmberCadabra davidalston gonna take you up on that!
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 19:04 davidalston karenswim - thanks to you and everyone for their great ideas today
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 19:04 contrapuntist awesome convo
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 19:04 Jane Chin AmberCadabra I'd like to contribute some comments as knowledge-based work metrics is a study area of mine but want to first read the transx
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 19:04 Connie Both AmberCadabra and I plan to do recaps. We will post the links when ready.
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 19:04 Jane Chin when's the deadline 4 emailing u
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 19:04 AmberCadabra thanks to everyone for your incredible insights. i can't wait to pull this all together and will post a link ASAP
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 19:04 epodcaster says I enjoyed finally being able to participate in a plurkshop. Great topic can't wait for the next one. Have a great day!
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 19:05 Teeg says jowyang's article today won't help Telemill. He writes that joining the conversation is outdated.
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 19:05 davidalston connie - let's pick this up again in a few weeks and do a part 2 perhaps.
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 19:05 AmberCadabra janechin I'll be working on the recap and hope to have it up by tonight
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 19:05 contrapuntist janechin the only workaround I have come up with is drafting samples and a Q&A to make things more conversational
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 19:05 AmberCadabra but you can always leave a comment - i'll post it on my blog - so the conversation can continue
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 19:05 davidalston ambercadabra will be pulling together a summary of today - I look forward to it.
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 19:06 Connie DavidAlston, that sounds great. Would love to have your assistance with part 2 on this topic. Thanks so much for doing this!
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 19:06 Teeg I look forward to reading the summaries. Thanks for leading it davidalston!
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 19:06 MackCollier says would be great to have a plurkshop where we share/discuss social media case studies
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 19:06 davidalston connie - you are very welcome and thanks for asking me to take part in this. Was a great discussion.
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 19:07 Jane Chin ok. will content myself with reading your summary and commenting. contrapuntist ~scenario-based type of "training" it sounds like.
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 19:07 pritcharddesign says Thanks! Looking forward to a recap!
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 19:07 AmberCadabra MackCollier I love that idea
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 19:07 Jane Chin p.s. is the only plurkshop topic allowed related to social media?
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 19:07 Teeg I think that would be a great one, MackCollier!
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 19:07 davidalston teeg - thanks - markcollier - great idea - maybe we could comment on ambercadabra 's post on ones we'd like to talk about?
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 19:09 Connie Weird. Plurk page shows only 377 responses. The timeline shows over 450. We are missing replies somehow.
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 19:09 davidalston connie - I noticed this as well. Hmmmm.
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 19:09 MackCollier says great idea David, we need to show 'real-world' examples as they help validate entire space to cos
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 19:09 AmberCadabra janechin absolutely not, that's just the way they've been trending i think
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 19:10 MackCollier says jane no! what do you have in mind?
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 19:11 AmberCadabra ConnieBensen i think the plurk page counter is off.
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 19:11 DaveWebb ConnieBensen Yeah I'm having problems following. Have to manual refresh constantly. Weird.
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 19:11 AmberCadabra whoa I just typed Connie...weird
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 19:11 DaveWebb whoops how did that happen???? I typed @ Connie!!
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 19:11 Teeg says it's supposed to do that now, Amber, was added yesterday...but didn't work earlier with all the typing.
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 19:12 Connie That is weird. Plurk definitely having some hiccups today. And they updated the API right in the middle of our plurkshop!
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 19:12 Connie Hope they haven't gotten my account confused with Connie Bensen's.
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 19:13 DaveWebb O.K. I'm out. Too hard. But I'll go back & check it out.
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 19:13 Teeg says Connie benson comes up first on the name list, and she typed in this conversation
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 19:13 DaveWebb BTW, I blogged about measuring intangibles a few months back.
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 19:13 DaveWebb If anyone's interested here's the link: missiondrivenmarketing.com/2008/02/21/measuring-intangibles-revisted-social-media-metrics-roi/
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 19:14 Connie DaveWebb would like to read that post, please purk a link to it.
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 19:14 Connie Reading my mind ...
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 19:14 DaveWebb Hope that's not a shameless plug. I think it's relevant
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 19:14 AmberCadabra alright Connie, we have our work cut out for us!!
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 19:16 DaveWebb There's two posts in that thread, btw. I recommend reading both.
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 19:22 robins is ok, what did I miss? ; )
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 19:31 Jane Chin (sorry MackCollier i need to go as i have baby poop all over my office now) emergency cleanup.
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 20:42 martinbogo 481 message overload!
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 20:43 AmberCadabra martinbogo...we had one that was almost 700. talk about WHOA
• 
  July 10, 2008 at 20:50 NancyFaye says Coulndn't make the plurkshop live, but have read the posts. Great information. Hopefully I
• 
  July 11, 2008 at 18:28 vaxen_var thinks Plurk needs a smoother interface. Got here but in a rather round about way. So... Hello Plurkworld!
• 
  July 11, 2008 at 18:29 vaxen_var thinks Yeah, July 11th... one day too late! Better late than never? At least Amber tweets...
• 
  July 11, 2008 at 18:30 AmberCadabra I'm multitasked/talented. Welcome vaxen_var!
• 
  July 11, 2008 at 18:30 vaxen_var thinks Guess I'll have to hunt up some plurk people on Twitter then just ask questions about usage. Not fun at this stage...
• 
  July 11, 2008 at 18:40 vaxen_var says Thanks Amber. You sure are!
• 
  July 11, 2008 at 18:41 vaxen_var says P presume this is 'live' now?
• 
  July 11, 2008 at 18:44 vaxen_var says Live is relative. Plurk is cumbersome, I'm outta here!