Ishmael 2 years ago
murdermom ...............
ℓᴀᴘɪɴ ...welp I knew they were seedy but that just put them on the Fuck You list
STRONF BLONF ...............................................................................
Ishmael Yeah, this isn't even a "Out of context" thing
TopCat You know as horrible as this is, I dislike the implication by the article that gay people shouldn't help other people in need just cause
TopCat they're treated poorly
Ishmael There are other charities.
STRONF BLONF are you literate? like, legit?
Tohim Well, there are many other ways I can help people in need, thankfully, than also supporting these bigots
TopCat Koala_Nest: True
STRONF BLONF i mean, i'm sorry for coming off like a dick but LMAO salvation army isn't the only charity out there
ѕαιℓσя ɥsɐʇ I'm no longer going to any Salvation Army store. :/ I'll donate my clothing elsewhere.
Ishmael Go to Goodwill.
TopCat bouquets: No that's cool, I'm realizing how stupid that was to say, sorry
Ishmael Goodwill doesn't discriminate against anyone, as far as I know.
Ishmael (Please, someone, correct me if I'm wrong.)
shotag wtf...
dreamchaser I think Goodwill in SF helps trans women.
Sailor Z not as far as I can see
'ㅅ' i knew about their anti-gay sentiment, tbh, and it's why i stopped donating clothing to them.
nyoomnyoom nugs ok well done donating to them, then
nyoomnyoom nugs sigh
Ishmael I knew they were anti-gay, but not this much.
nyoomnyoom nugs problem is, there's no Goodwill in center city, but there is other thrift stores...
STRONF BLONF wildarms: The Goodwill in SF (the one by Market, I presume you're talking about?) is excellent!
STRONF BLONF I volunteered there for my community service hours and I never had an issue with them, but, depending on the location there are some issues
STRONF BLONF I recall reading about one of them having a racist toy for sale, and how the ones in the south arent' exactly minority friendly
dreamchaser I don't really know where! I just remember someone mentioning it. :-)
Ishmael I suppose you can't help certain individuals.
Cʟᴀʀᴀ Wʜᴏ This is old news
Ishmael It's news to quite a few of us, it seems. :x
dreamchaser Yeah, I've been anti-Salvation Army for a few years now. They won't give shelter to gay couples and they make trans people room based on
Cʟᴀʀᴀ Wʜᴏ They have been really anti-gay and anti-non christian for a very very long time
dreamchaser assigned gender.
Moogles Yeah, it`s a real shame.
Cʟᴀʀᴀ Wʜᴏ this article was passed around during the holidays but its a prettygood account of SA being shitlords
Ishmael Holy shit. How did I even miss that?
ᴛᴀᴛᴇ★ wow they're really a charitable organization aren't they (unsure)
ᴛᴀᴛᴇ★ i always knew they didn't support gays but this is way too much
Ishmael I've done work with Habitat for Humanity. The Red Cross refuses to accept my blood, though.
Cʟᴀʀᴀ Wʜᴏ thats not the red cross, thats the FDA
Cʟᴀʀᴀ Wʜᴏ the red cross has consistently lobbied the government to change the laws
ᴛᴀᴛᴇ★ Yeah the fda won't accept blood from homosexuals, right? which is kind of dumb now, everyone knows aids isn't limited to homosexuals now
Ishmael Well, it's not because of my orientation or anything.
Cʟᴀʀᴀ Wʜᴏ from specifically gay men. but yeah it was created during the 80's and never removed
STRONF BLONF yeah. a lot of the people in the medical field think it's pants on head ridiculous and the standards should be changed
ϟνєƖσcιтуϟ gross.
leo Just liking this for later reference. But seriously, what the fuck.
Ishmael It's more because I live with someone who has type C Hepatitis.
Ishmael So they'
STRONF BLONF but, somehow, it's never been revoked
Ishmael ve said they won't take my blood until I've been away from them for a solid year.
Ishmael Could gay men from other countries donate?
Ishmael is that just an American thing?
Cʟᴀʀᴀ Wʜᴏ yeah they're like that with a lot of things. you can never donate if you've lived in africa
Ishmael I was in Thailand and the Philippines a few years ago, and I know they refuse blood from people who were in Germany during a certain time
Ishmael period
Cʟᴀʀᴀ Wʜᴏ yeah you cant donate if you lived in england during the 80's
Cʟᴀʀᴀ Wʜᴏ too
natsubutt is there an official record of this interview or a more legitimate website (such as an official media site) that reflects this story about the
natsubutt Salvation Army? I'm buying it, easily, but I'd like to spread this to some other people and I don't think they'll really take a site called
natsubutt very seriously.
@Keiichiism It's not necessarily gay men, it's men who have had sex with men who cannot give blood
@Keiichiism I have once argued with someone who said that it should be kept this way because of epidemiology. That was a laugh
#ɴᴏᴛᴀʟʟᴛɪᴛᴀɴs here is the story on newser
Ishmael cagayake They also have it in audio on Unicorn Booty.
#ɴᴏᴛᴀʟʟᴛɪᴛᴀɴs also The Atlantic Wire
#ɴᴏᴛᴀʟʟᴛɪᴛᴀɴs (which also has the audio)
natsubutt Thank you very much!
ωαяѕσηg ....oh for goodness sake.
ωαяѕσηg LtheMilkEater: Also that bullshit about being unable to give blood was disproved ages ago.
ωαяѕσηg ages ago
ωαяѕσηg It isn't the 90s.
@Keiichiism Clearly that's the case, but these people who are the ones accepting the blood didn't think so
ωαяѕσηg Yeah, sadly.
dreamchaser They almost kept me from giving blood because my mom had Hepatitis B (I think that's the one) in high school.
ωαяѕσηg The sad thing is we will always need more blood. Always.
ωαяѕσηg Stopping people from donating because of false information is... kind of... yeah.
dreamchaser Yep. :| They have to test the blood anyways don't they? So why would it matter if the donor's had sex with other men?
ωαяѕσηg Pretty much.
@Keiichiism This person argued that the testing is imperfect so they have to do this as a precaution
ωαяѕσηg If you take certain meds you can't give blood, if i remember correctly. But that's logical- some medications stay in the blood a long time.
@Keiichiism which doesn't make sense, since you're not... discriminating against other demographics....
dreamchaser If it was a precaution they'd only take the blood of virgins.
ωαяѕσηg But this stuff is so really... yeah. 8|a
hairporn if they want a precuation like that they should ask if people have had unprotected sex :|
ωαяѕσηg Annnnd sorry to say but homosexuals use condoms too. At least the ones I have hung out with do.
ωαяѕσηg Condoms aren't just birth control.
seawolf Welp, guess I'll be finding other charities I can donate to.
Gardevoir Oh. I knew there was a reason I didn't like the Salvation Army.
тearjarѕ t !!!
Indestructovag oh, I feel awful, I just went there today 8(
HEY LADY hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhholy balls
Klaus What the fuck....
Gardevoir if you are a Christian charity devoted to helping the homeless and needy, and then refuse to help some of them because you don't like them
Gardevoir then you are doing both charity and Christianity wrong
Gardevoir Jesus would flip some fucking tables, I tell you what
Maraich The Salvation Army took about $10,000 worth of exercise equipment from my dad while he was struggling
Maraich So I already never donate to them /o\
gay viking ✩ Huh. You know what.
Maraich Note: My dad never offered to donate anything. They just took his stuff.
gay viking ✩ Why don't I declare that straight people should be put to death because it's against my religion.
gay viking ✩
gay viking ✩ yeah this makes me sick
ωαяѕσηg That is all.
gay viking ✩ those salvation army bell ringers haven't gotten any of my money in a while and this kind of shit is why
Gardevoir "God has shown me that I should not call anyone profane or unclean."
Gardevoir -- some dude named Peter, you might've heard of him
gay viking ✩ LMAO
ℜebecca /flips tables
zumba? .....
★♫ ᴀᴄᴄʜᴀɳ! woooooooow...
★♫ ᴀᴄᴄʜᴀɳ! as if it's bad enough that they burn things that are from minority religions
★♫ ᴀᴄᴄʜᴀɳ! *isn't bad enough
Ļīťėŗâřŷ ...../o\ the more I hear, the more I want to leave a flaming bag of cat turds in their parking lot
Ļīťėŗâřŷ I knew they were fucked up, but WOW
Ļīťėŗâřŷ sent it to my facebook timeline so my family sees not to shop there, and we'll make sure to avoid it like the plague
мιĸorιɴ dammit
мιĸorιɴ Alisa_makora: omg so accurate it's beautiful
мιĸorιɴ As Monty Python once said
мιĸorιɴ "We have no objections with Mr. Christ."
∞ вering so glad i stick with goodwill and savers
Ļīťėŗâřŷ /fistbump
мιĸorιɴ I do however have objections with ASSHOLES
Ļīťėŗâřŷ ::Plurk Frontpage Promotion::
nice dynamite Man, I've had people tell me I'm a shitty person for not donating to the Salvation Army at christmastime
nice dynamite (even while i was unemployed!! charity begins at home, y'all)
ɱɛoɯƒɪɑ Fuck you and the high horse you rode in on, chump.
ɱɛoɯƒɪɑ There's only one thing in your precious religion who is allowed to judge a person's right to live, and it's God.
ɱɛoɯƒɪɑ So you can take a high dive off the board into hell and sit there until you learn how to live in the mortal realm.
MOVED First of all, I hope that guy's fired like, yesterday.
MOVED Second, that is such an asshole thing to say/do I don't even... gah. where to begin?!
MOVED Just... da fuq?
Ļīťėŗâřŷ I don't really like talking about it, but... I buy homeless people food and water whenever they ask for money, and because I live in a poor
Ļīťėŗâřŷ part of town, that's fairly often. I donate my clothes to DV shelters, especially if they help GSMs.
Ļīťėŗâřŷ so if anyone looks down on me for not tossing money in the bucket, fuck you. I fed some diabetic Native woman who was going home to AZ
Ļīťėŗâřŷ v(unsure)v
ωαяѕσηg meteloides: That's far better then giving any charity money, in my opinion.
ωαяѕσηg Charities like salvation army that come with religious weight are often conditional.
Ļīťėŗâřŷ yeah
MOVED Not only that, but I have an uncle who sat outside stores with tables propped up asking for donations.
ωαяѕσηg Missionary work can become that way, too, if the missionaries are shitty.
MOVED He was never in the army, and any money he made he was paid out of, while his boss skimmed off the top.
Ļīťėŗâřŷ a lot of the food pantries, homeless shelters, and addiction recovery drop-in centers here are religiously-oriented
Ļīťėŗâřŷ it kinda sucks for everyone else who doesn't follow their creed but otherwise needs to eat
Ļīťėŗâřŷ (and by kinda, I mean "wow, that is fucking terrible")
ghost turducken I went to look up the Bible verse quoted in the article, and my favorite part is actually right after it.
ghost turducken Romans 2:1 pretty much says "and if you judge others, you're no better than those catty gay atheist pricks."
Ļīťėŗâřŷ LMFAO
Ļīťėŗâřŷ "AW YEAH LETS GET OUR JUDGING HATS ON /turns page/ whoops."
ghost turducken Seriously. All the lulz.
Ļīťėŗâřŷ askjfnaksjfa :'D
chεяяy ßℓσssσm Holy fuck I had no idea about this
chεяяy ßℓσssσm Never donating to them again this is disgusting
ghost turducken also it looks like later in Romans 2 it's saying that nonbelievers who are good people are totally okay
ghost turducken because even though they're nonbelievers they've got the law of God in their hearts.
キラメキ王子 I like Matthew 7: 1-2 better for this type of situation. "Do not judge, or you too will be judged.
キラメキ王子 2For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you"
MOVED sometimes I wonder if bible thumpers actually read the verses instead of preach the ones that are more beneficial to them. :l
StupidMocker ...Ugh. I am never donated to these bigots again >:c
StupidMocker *donating
Gardevoir subtlewind: Nope.
Melissa Foster Well - I'm not donating to them, now.
truthseekerₒ .........................................................for the love of God, why.
truthseekerₒ This.... really saddens me. Being a Christian and seeing fellow "believers" act in such a way...
shotag Thank you very much for posting the verses about judging.
shotag I live by those as much as I can.
shotag My aunt actually tried to quote Bible verses at me and my friends on facebook because I had posted something about supporting gay marriage
shotag Several of said friends being gay or bi
shotag I tried to tell her that God judges people, and we shouldn't
shotag She pretty much kept fighting my friends
shotag And posting paragraphs
shotag and after I politely asked her to stop for like the fifth time adding that she was not changing any minds
shotag she un-friended me
shotag I got e-disowned
truthseekerₒ ...I'm sorry to hear that. It truly hurts to have a family member who is like that.
shotag It does. :c
truthseekerₒ /hugs
truthseekerₒ In my case, it's my own father...and I'm bi.
shotag But the worst part is, all my friends apologized for fighting with my Aunt where as she just did the e-disowning. :\
shotag /EXTRA HUGS
truthseekerₒ I'm his only child, and it terrifies me to try and tell them this. Oddly enough, the rest of my family is awesome about it. :|
truthseekerₒ /because at least he acknowledges to being an ass :|
secret guessy
shotag this is now a hug pile
truthseekerₒ yes. fuck the hate, give all the hugs
Tiger Doughnut /rubs face
Tiger Doughnut i knew they were anti-gay for ages, but... wow
Tiger Doughnut just wow
Tiger Doughnut there are no words
Tiger Doughnut welp. Thank goodness my family doesn't donate to them
shotag I should have known they were no good, I got a dirty look from one of those bell ringers because I only had some pennies to donate. :|
Tiger Doughnut o_0
truthseekerₒ ...whut 0_o
shotag I put some pennies in one of the buckets once and the guy looked at me like I'd put gum in it. I don't know either.
Tiger Doughnut man, they should be happy people are giving them anything at all
ragin' cajun This is a classic case of someone blindly following doctrine, without really even knowing why
shotag Like, stopped ringing his bell for a second and everything
Tiger Doughnut
Tiger Doughnut gjbreakingithero: yes
ragin' cajun People like this hold faith up like a shield and believe that being devout about things that are, in fact, contrary to the message they
ragin' cajun preach today, because they don't think they can do away with it without being called faithless and ungodly by their community
ragin' cajun As a spokesperson, he's supposed to uphold the rules and doctrine, and he obviously isnt trying TOO hard to justify it.
ragin' cajun Hence the blind faith card.
secret guessy Boycott The Salvation ArmyBoycott The Salvation Army
Tiger Doughnut which sounds insane to people not holding that card
ragin' cajun I feel sorry for him, because there really is no justifying this, but he is also in no position to rewrite doctrine and he doesn't want to
ragin' cajun be kicked out of his community either. I know what it's like, until I decided to just leave.
Tiger Doughnut that was a good video
Tiger Doughnut ...okay, i guess that would be a hard position to be in, yeah
truthseekerₒ I applaud them (applause)
truthseekerₒ and yeah... it really is hard to choose sometimes between what's right and what's easy.
truthseekerₒ It's easier to go with the crowd, to blind yourself to everything but what's told to you. But in the end... it's also the path that-
truthseekerₒ -causes the most pain.
ragin' cajun I know from experience it is, because it really isn't that easy. Questioning part of doctrine to a crowd who doesn't want to listen is hard
truthseekerₒ Both to the individual and those their words and actions reach.
♆ percy are you seriously making this about how hard it is to be christian when this dude wants gay people to die
ragin' cajun But that also doesn't excuse death threats lol
ღ springypiggy ...Times I'm glad my mom defaults to Goodwill for all donation/secondhand shopping needs
truthseekerₒ Nope.
truthseekerₒ That shit isn't true Christianity.
ragin' cajun Lets not jump to conclusions
truthseekerₒ Because Christ Himself said to "Love your neighbor as you love yourself"
ragin' cajun Like I said before, nothing justifies saying other people should die for being gay lol
ragin' cajun That faith in particular has a lot of contradictory doctrine
truthseekerₒ Second most important command, and they fail it.
truthseekerₒ /knows, oh does she know.
truthseekerₒ I grew up in it; had to study it for years.
ragin' cajun Yeah
truthseekerₒ I got disowned by my church's youth group for denying their beliefs and speaking the truth.
shotag Slightly unrelated, but food companies are officially better people than the Salvation Army
ragin' cajun So anyway, this guy gets my pity for being stuck in an uncomfortable position, but he put himself there and death threats are never okay
Tiger Doughnut i will never understand how they can believe that gay people should die, yet turn around and say that Christ loves everyone
Tiger Doughnut it's awful
shotag ^^THIS
ragin' cajun Apparently he loves everyone, but God hates gays. Yet Jesus and God and the Holy Spirit are one. 6_9
ღ springypiggy For a religion that claims to love everyone, they sure do a lot of hating
Tiger Doughnut yuuup
ragin' cajun Suuuuure do.
Tiger Doughnut and a lot of judging, for a religion where only God is allowed to judge
blue♡blooded For a faith promoting peace and love for people everywhere, some Christians really fuck that up. I've stopped attending church until I can
ღ springypiggy It's like what Ghandi said
blue♡blooded find a nonfundamentalist one.
ღ springypiggy "I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are not very much like your Christ."
ragin' cajun LOL YEP
Tiger Doughnut ..basically this
blue♡blooded It's a shame, because not everyone is like this (John Shore is officially my favourite guy ever, look him up if you want to see a big
blue♡blooded name Christian speaker who believes being gay is not a sin and actually practices the whole love everyone thing) but the moronic majority of
ragin' cajun Yeah, its basically crap like this that give Christianity a bad name, tbh. Every religion seems to have their idiots.
blue♡blooded the church are the loudest, aaaand that makes me mad
shotag I heard about a Christian church run by a nice lesbian couple a while back. Why aren't there more of those sorts of churches?
Tiger Doughnut but unfortunately Christianity is the biggest one in the US so it's the stupidity we're exposed to the most
ღ springypiggy Yeah. I don't have anything against Christianity or Christians, I can just come off that way sometimes because the ones you hear about most
ragin' cajun I had left my church that I grew up in because I kept questioning crap like this, and the fact that the pastor's daughters would go see
ღ springypiggy are the stupid bigoted morons who try to use the mos popular faith in the world to justify their buttholism
ragin' cajun rated R movies, wear really sexy attire while minors and their families would live in mansions while the church was expected to tithe and
ragin' cajun get scolded for doing any of that
ragin' cajun I'd ask why we were supposed to hate gay people or unmarried couples living together, and no one could give a good answer.
shotag Yeah it kind of makes me sick to know people all over the place are using religion as an excuse to be jerks.
how bout no Sigh. Salvation army you disappoint me
ragin' cajun I found out later that the church went broke because they had taken donations and gambled with it on the stock market and lost
ragin' cajun But no one was allowed to buy lotto tix.... hmm.
ragin' cajun LOL seems like most religious organizations are just about controlling people, not making lives better with faith
shotag I don't even...
Tiger Doughnut gjbreakingithero: unfortunately yeah that seems to be what it is
shotag I have no words
ღ springypiggy I'm only barely an adult and permanently agnostic, but even I know how to act like true Christian better thn plenty of "true Christians"
ღ springypiggy Your religion preaches loving everyone? Sure, go ahead and use it to justify hatred of loads and loads of people...
shotag Yeah I have a friend who goes to church all the time and complains to me about the behavior of the other people there, and she actually
shotag doesn't think being gay or bi is okay. But you know what? She isn't a douche about it. She doesn't treat anyone like trash because of what
shotag gender they're attracted too
shotag She treats people like people. I don't know why that's so hard for so many other Christians. >_<
Tiger Doughnut yeah, i'm honestly kind of okay with that? because i'm not demanding people give up their religion
Tiger Doughnut just... don't be horrible and we'll get along
shotag Yeah It's basically live and let live?
Tiger Doughnut yeah
ღ springypiggy Yeah. Even if you won't accept it, at least toleate it.
ღ springypiggy *Tolerate
うさぎ★モドキ Even if you don't approve of it for whatever reason, that's no excuse to not love them like everyone else. It is-
うさぎ★モドキ never okay to persecute people :<
shotag Yes! Coexist. Not everyone needs to have your religion or your opinion. It's okay to be different!
ღ springypiggy And even if you don't love them, at least don't hate them
shotag YES ME TOO
うさぎ★モドキ I hope that guy gets fired and eventually comes to rethink things : /
shotag I am actually a straight Christian
ღ springypiggy It's okay, we know there are good and smart people of every fith, it's just that the stupid Christians are a lot noisier than the smart ones
ღ springypiggy *faith, augh these keyboards are not what I'm used to
shotag Yeah I just get upset over these things because it's gotten so bad that on occasion I'm afraid of telling people I'm Christian
shotag Because I don't want people to think I'm one of those Christians. ._.
shotag And that's sad.
blue♡blooded twinklecapsule: Word. admittedly I'm kind of clammed up about being Christian because I lost my faith for a while and became a Huge Douche,
blue♡blooded and I'm still trying to right my wrongs before I feel able to call myself one again, but yeah you tell people you're a Christian and it's
blue♡blooded like everyone think's you're an extremist headcase.
blue♡blooded I think LGBT Christians have it pretty rough too because they're right in the firing line and are often viewed as traitors to both sides
shotag Exactly, and I just want to be friends with people no matter what religion or orientation they are or whatever. :<
blue♡blooded I'll be trying to stress that I'm a nonfundamentalist in future, though I never really bring up my religion unless conversation veers onto
blue♡blooded that subject area anyway
shotag same
Gardevoir It really sucks, because when I find out that someone I know is a Christian I immediately have to go on my guard.
Gardevoir At least until I've ascertained how they feel about Teh Gay.
Gardevoir It's sometimes difficult for me to trust even when I know they don't wish me any harm, because I've always got the thought in the back of my
Gardevoir head of, "Okay, you're acting nice, but in your secret heart of hearts are you hoping I'll 'come to my senses' or thinking I'll go to Hell?"
shotag ...and there is why I get afraid to tell people right there
blue♡blooded No, I completely understand how you feel. When I realised my own orientation I was suddenly acutely aware of what the people in my church
Gardevoir Yeah :-(
Blue Valkyrie This makes me sad. Even sadder that I did do the bell ringing one year.
blue♡blooded might think of me, and felt too uncomfortable to be part of it anymore
Gardevoir It's horrible, because like. I meet a stranger wearing a cross? I have to assume the worst
blue♡blooded While I can appreciate Christians who are peaceful in their views about homosexuality being a sin more than I can the loud-mouths who would
Gardevoir because it's physically and emotionally unsafe to give the benefit of the doubt until my safety is proven
blue♡blooded take great pleasure in telling others to die, I...really cannot agree with the viewpoint of homosexuality as being sinful, and while I'm not
Gardevoir If I get to know someone and they come out with "well homosexuality is a sin but God says we shouldn't judge", my heart's still broken
Gardevoir especially because homosexuality seems to be considered a special class of sin.
blue♡blooded going to disown any fellow church friends who do think that way, it makes me very wary, because what it really means, whether they realise
blue♡blooded it or not, is they believe LGBT people to be less than human. Sexuality is indeed not a choice, it's an immovable part of a person
Gardevoir Though, I met this dude at a meetup and got into a religious conversation with him that was interesting.
Gardevoir He believes gays are going to hell. He also realizes this is inconsistent with the rest of his beliefs, with what he knows about the world--
Gardevoir --and he believes that God Himself would be pissed at him for believing it.
Gardevoir after psyducking at him for a while it was kind of like WELL... AT LEAST YOU REALIZE IT'S INCONSISTENT...???
Gardevoir also creepyfries yes pretty much all of this.
Gardevoir Like, it's great if you're nice about it and all? But if you believe I'm going to hell for loving my girlfriend, that's still not cool.
blue♡blooded Once again I must big-up mr John Shore by dropping this into the conversation. Some people here might find
blue♡blooded this an interesting read
blue♡blooded it's kind of long, but I love it
Gardevoir And a lot of the people who are "nice" about it, also oppose equal rights for GSMs.
Gardevoir Which 1. violates separation of church and state, and 2. does a lot of harm just on its own.
blue♡blooded What does GSM mean? Google tells me "Global System for Mobile Communications" but I'm sure that's not what you mean
Gardevoir I'd almost rather they be assholes, because at least that matches their fundamentally ungenerous beliefs about me. :<
Gardevoir Gender and Sexual Minorities
blue♡blooded ah.
Gardevoir the acronyms are getting a bit unwieldy lately and that's a nice tidy one that casts a wide umbrella. XD
Blue Valkyrie One of my librarian friends had a conversation with a woman who swore up, down and sideways that the Founding Fathers (cont)
Blue Valkyrie didn't mean Separation of Church and State when they wrote the Constitution.
Gardevoir also oh frick yes I love John Shore. Fred Clark, too.
Gardevoir ... lololo
blue♡blooded Never heard of Fred Clark, but I shall be looking him up
Gardevoir no Jefferson had some pretty strong feelings on that matter...
Gardevoir creepyfries: He runs the block Slacktivist, onn Patheos.
Blue Valkyrie I think most people don't know/forget that the Founding Fathers were a bunch of deists.
Gardevoir Used to be on typepad, but that one got converted into a community blog when he moved to Patheos
Gardevoir here is Slacktivist
Gardevoir I actually used to be even less inclined to trust Christians before I started reading Fred, he's done wonders for me
Gardevoir John Shore helps too
Gardevoir but it's kind of a sad realization for me that I'll never be able to just fully and automatically trust someone who identifies Christian
blue♡blooded Thanks for the link, I'm definitely checking this out
Gardevoir because that risk always exists.
shotag songofkeys: Just so you know, when people tell me that they think being gay or bi is a sin, I just tell them that I don't see how love can
shotag be a sin
Gardevoir twinklecapsule: /high-five
Gardevoir yeah some try to weasel out of it by saying that, oh, it's okay to have the attraction as long as you don't act on it
Gardevoir which is still morally abominable
shotag yeah :\
Gardevoir love is love and last I checked Jesus was a big fan of love :|
Gardevoir (I've actually been wondering lately if there's a word for like. someone who doesn't believe that Jesus was divine, isn't sure he was even--
blue♡blooded Plus the fact that Jesus had absolutely zero words to say on homosexuality pin points what a tiny deal it actually is. Now, if we were
blue♡blooded talking about how many times he told people to love others...
Gardevoir --a real person who lived, but thinks his radically progressive love and ministry was totally rad and wants to follow that example)
Gardevoir (because if there is, I think that's what I am XD)
shotag And a lot of times I see much purer, more committed love in same sex couples than in heterosexual ones...
Gardevoir oh yeah, definitely
Gardevoir lololol 55-hour marriage lololol /obligatory
Gardevoir but yeah
Gardevoir when your love isn't the default setting and you get shit on for expressing it, you have to think real hard about it
shotag Yeah the post my aunt pitched a fit about was actually a repost about how same-sex marriage was not going to ruin the sanctity of marriage
Gardevoir and when people find that it's worth it anyway, that's how you get these elderly gay couples who've been together for 70 years
Gardevoir and are only just being allowed to marry
shotag When celebrities were getting married for a few hours
shotag or cheating
shotag ext
Gardevoir I think it would enhance it, really
shotag Well also marriage is even more than that
shotag It's getting to be legally allowed to see your signifigant other in a hospital and things like that
Gardevoir because on a social level, what marriage does is create little social teams, partners who have each other's backs
Gardevoir and can make life easier for each other by sharing burdens and cooperating
Gardevoir opening that up to non-heterosexual couples says "yes, we value your contributions to society and wish to empower you to increase them"
Gardevoir and of course, spiritually, taking that from a privilege afforded to the "right" couples to a right extended to all who love
Gardevoir emphasizes the value of love
Gardevoir I think it's still quite possible to separate legal marriage from religious marriage, but ideally the two work in concert
shotag yeah and I also think it's kind of stupid that in 'the land of the free' we're denying people the rights to get legally married.
Gardevoir Oh, but I have the right to marry a man! That's equal rights! I'm not being denied any rights, I have the right to marry a man! :-D :-D :-D
Gardevoir ... sorry that was a sudden attack of spite there XD
Gardevoir but yes I have in fact heard that exact argument
Gardevoir yep
Gardevoir the point, their heads, etc.
Gardevoir ... and of course, the myth of the child-raping homosexual persists :/
Gardevoir never mind that to a child molester, the gender doesn't much matter as long as it's a kid
Gardevoir and notice how you basically never hear about lesbians molesting little girls?
blue♡blooded as does the one that legalising equal marriage will lead to the legalisation of incestuous marriages (what)
Gardevoir ...hahahaha yeah no :'D
blue♡blooded I find it sad but hilarious that anti equal marriage groups use baseless arguments like that, because it just proves they haven't a leg to
blue♡blooded stand on
Gardevoir the sad thing is they don't REALIZE they don't
Gardevoir they think these are perfectly logical arguments
Gardevoir (or they DO and they're deliberately lying because it motivates the plebes to send money. which is worse.)
shotag I'm just glad I was raised by a smart, accepting mother who taught me not to judge people and then met a wonderful girl in my most-
blue♡blooded I definitely believe most of them know what they're doing, but they know they won't get as much support if they chant about 'morals'l and
Gardevoir but it should be such a simple thing to see, dammit. does no harm + is fulfilling to the participants + is consensual = no fucking problem
blue♡blooded the simple fact that equal rights is scary to them, so they go for bizarre fearmongering
shotag -influential growing-up-years, who taught me that being gay or bi did not change the type of person you are.
Gardevoir That is great yes c: you lucked out
shotag Yes I did. c=
Gardevoir and hey. we're way more visible than we ever were before, and the younger generations are growing up knowing we're not really any different
Gardevoir this kind of hate will get less and less traction as the years go by
shotag I hope so
Gardevoir hate and ignorance
Gardevoir both are cured by knowledge
Gardevoir ... I always kind of wanted to make a series of PSAs
Gardevoir moments in the lives of gay families
Gardevoir things like a teenage girl taking her boyfriend home to meet her moms and the boyfriend being welcomed
Gardevoir a dad helping his kid with math homework when the other dad calls in that dinner's ready
Gardevoir utterly ordinary stuff like that
Gardevoir unfortunately that would require, like. casting. and filming. but it's a nice dream.
Bara~Bait more donations to them. Ever.
Gardevoir (maybe a little spot about a woman filing taxes and commenting to her wife that the worst part is having to file as single.)
Bara~Bait I hadn't even known they wouldn't help people who aren't straight. =| That would have been enough!
Gardevoir (because I'm not even considering marriage yet and I still die a little inside when I check that off on my taxes)
Blue Valkyrie The Church of England's been causing a big flap over here about how gay marriage would fundamentally change the definition thereof.
Blue Valkyrie There's been a lot of, "You guys sure have your nose in the air for a religion that came into being so Henry VIII could divorce Wife #1."
blue♡blooded litshard: /waves at her fellow Brit
blue♡blooded Am I the only surprised that it's the Lib Dems wanting to pass equal marriage rights? I mean, I'm pleased, of course, just...
blue♡blooded of all the political parties, they're not the ones I'd have expected such a move from.
blue♡blooded I hope David Cameron punts the CofE all like FUCK YOU GUYS I DO WHAT I WANY
blue♡blooded ...want
blue♡blooded even
Blue Valkyrie creepyfries: American who moved to Wales to marry. And is eyeing possible immigration changes warily, even if I've been here nearly 8 years
blue♡blooded ohh I see
Blue Valkyrie I have to admit, that stand is about the only thing I like about Cameron.
blue♡blooded Same here. I was majorly regretting my vote for him until that stand came up
Blue Valkyrie I don't think that stand is quite enough to completely make one change their mind.
blue♡blooded Well, that's true enough. But it's something positive finally, at least.
chεяяy ßℓσssσm Yes, I hate Cameron's guts for most of what he's done, but this makes me c:
chεяяy ßℓσssσm I just find it utterly ironic that the Conservative government is doing more for gay marriage than the liberal Labour government did
Blue Valkyrie It may well be the Lib Dems pushing it. Hard to tell.
chεяяy ßℓσssσm True, although I think David Cameron does legitimately believe in gay marriage, which is nice.
Blue Valkyrie Hey. Finally a reason not to entirely dislike him.
chεяяy ßℓσssσm Yes! :-) It's restoring my faith in humanity.
Lizzy Bith Late to this - 1. Salvation Army, thanks for being another Christian group that makes us all sound like intolerant jerks and 2. I wrote a-
Lizzy Bith -paper trying to prove that what Paul refers to as homosexuality is in NO way what we understand as homosexuality, that he is referancing-
Lizzy Bith -pederastic (may not have spelled that right) behaviors of other cultures, where two males (one adult, one younger/child) had sexual-
Lizzy Bith -relations that were sometimes forced. I tried even to prove that Paul made up words (he did) yet we aren't 200% sure of the actual-
Lizzy Bith -translation. In short, I argues Paul meant pederasty and couldn't condemn homosexuality NOW because he wouldn't even know what it is.-
Lizzy Bith -Last, I apologize for the extremist Christians who behave like this. We are supposed to love one another (period)
Blue Valkyrie Also, the King James translation took some liberties in translation in order to make it sound better in English.
Lizzy Bith litshard: exactly. I don't speak Greek so I could only read about translations, but I still argued for 20+ pages about it
Blue Valkyrie Sounds like a good argument. I had a professor who was a Lutheran priest. He learned to read Greek so he could read the untranslated Bible.
Lizzy Bith Good for him
Lizzy Bith Language is painfully tricky. We just....sometimes there just ISN'T a word for word match
Blue Valkyrie Yeah, he was a good guy. Properly taught comparative world religions with...well, as little bias as he could manage.
Lizzy Bith That can be hard....points for effort?
Blue Valkyrie Yeah. We still spent more time on the Abrahamic religions than the others, but we got good introductions to more.
Lizzy Bith /nodnod
nyoomnyoom nugs all my clothing/etc donations are going here from now on
nyoomnyoom nugs PAT is an amazing organization
nαgαdσrαвlє♥ wow no
oĸтavιa. wow. just. wow.
Tough Love brb_herding_cats , I also read a REALLY long essay from some biblical scholar that explained that, due to the context of the entire area
Tough Love where Paul condemned "homosexuality," it was far more likely he was condemning excessive lust more than anything else.
Tough Love Because he was busy condemning other sexual behaviors as well, most of them heterosexual.
Tough Love (or what we'd understand as heterosexual. This book was written before classification and understanding of sexuality was a thing)
Tough Love (hell, it was written before GERM THEORY was a thing)
TheMirr welp one more reason to despise the SA
Lizzy Bith /nod
ωιт¢н вιт¢н WELP
ωιт¢н вιт¢н I'm not Christian, but I've always been supportive of Christian charities - because hey, someone needs to help out, right?
ωιт¢н вιт¢н And it's nice to see people who preach about Christ's love actually put their money where their mouth is. But this? No/
ωιт¢н вιт¢н Just no.
ωιт¢н вιт¢н Fuck them.
Tough Love Well, if you're taking that route, the Salvation Army's hardly the best place to start to begin with.
Eternal Pumpkin This the most offensive thing I've seen since the last time the Salvation Army did anything!
Tough Love Even ignoring this, the word "Army" isn't tacked on because they thought it sounded nice.
Tough Love They're an evangelical group that does not understand you don't bludgeon people over the head with your brochures to convince them to join
Eternal Pumpkin SaintCynicism: Come to think of it, I'm not too fond of "Salvation" in the sense they use it, either.
Tough Love It's less a charity and more "what they do anyway"
( :ᐛ ) ~♪。・゜ mother of christ that is sum bullshit. wtg, sa.
gєитℓємαи нєяσ to be fair, the SA has disavowed the man's statements
gєитℓємαи нєяσ it doesn't give them any less of a crappy track record, but there is that
Tough Love They've disavowed that they discriminate in doling out aid, too.
Tough Love that doesn't mean they're being honest.
gєитℓємαи нєяσ like I said, it doesn't give them any less of a crappy track record
INTERROBANG gimme a bit to put my surprised face on. this could take a minute.
KitIsCrazy That's why I've refused to give them anything for oh 10 years now. I found out that they believed that and decided to give my money to more
KitIsCrazy deserving causes.
ɴᴇᴡ ᴋɪᴅɴᴇʏs Ohh yeah, I recently discovered that SA gives some of their donated money to anti-gay causes. :\
various crimes. not only are they gross homophobes, but I've heard about a lot of internal corruption in the SA
aι ĸιngoғdυcĸѕ I can tell you firsthand that they discriminate passing out aid:
aι ĸιngoғdυcĸѕ I had problems with them at a shelter as a kid because I wouldn't parrot Scripture back at them.
various crimes. and a lot of not following up on things like sexual harassment complaints
aι ĸιngoғdυcĸѕ They're very bad about being jerks to anyone coming to them for help that doesn't fit their standards - or isn't willing to try - in
aι ĸιngoғdυcĸѕ terms of religion, sexuality, gender identity, or well... any other thing.
various crimes. goodwill and women's shelters all the way for me :|b
aι ĸιngoғdυcĸѕ nods I think in a lot of cases local shelters are nice to deal with, but I haven't heard anything bad about Goodwill, so I tend to donate
aι ĸιngoғdυcĸѕ to them as well.
aι ĸιngoғdυcĸѕ I could rant about SA all day though; I couldn't believe how they reacted to me when I was young and in need.
kelpi says I can't believe organizations get away with this... it's just sickening.
Vash No longer am I going there. oi
Vash Sick crapola man
andahuphuphup gah how in the world
andahuphuphup religion scares me so so much sometimes
skyfall This is sort of a double edged issue though
skyfall because SA does help people, right?
Gardevoir So do other organizations, though.
Gardevoir Helping people isn't zero-sum.
Gardevoir And other organizations do it without the asshattery.
skyfall i'm sure that most people who run SA don't actually want to kill all gays.
skyfall this guy is a bible thumper.
skyfall he deserves every death threat he gets of course
skyfall but
skyfall the organization as a whole still helps people and has for decades
andahuphuphup right but this is in their doctrine
lee sungmin. lots of organizations help people
Gardevoir And they discriminate in how and who they aid.
lee sungmin. maybe give them your money
ghost turducken but you could give your money to a different charity in the same social niche
andahuphuphup yes, it helps people, but it openly discriminates in who it helps
ghost turducken one not run by fuckfaces
skyfall fair enough
skyfall i just feel bad for all the non-sociopaths who might work for SA without even being aware how horrendous the company is
lee sungmin. you're basically saying that we should be careful about how angry we get about this because possibly not all of them are that bad
lee sungmin. wouldn't those hypothetical non-sociopaths be better off knowing this information, then
skyfall absolutely
lee sungmin. so they can feel properly disgusted with themselves and quit
aι ĸιngoғdυcĸѕ I think too when you're making decisions about where your money goes, you have to be able to look at the big picture, and make choices
aι ĸιngoғdυcĸѕ that go along with your values.
lee sungmin. so i don't know what you're saying here
Gardevoir you might have more of a point if the SA was the only game in town, but they're not
skyfall ideally the not-crazy people could always disband from SA and start a new charity
Gardevoir yes that would be pretty rad
Gardevoir more charities = always awesome
skyfall well the most awesome thing would be if we stopped needing charities altogether...
skyfall although that'll never happen, since that would be utopian i suppose
aι ĸιngoғdυcĸѕ That's not a very realistic goal, because there are always going to be people in need in one way or another.
Gardevoir yeah unfortunately
skyfall right
lee sungmin. but that's never going to happen so you're sort of derailing this plurk unnecessarily
aι ĸιngoғdυcĸѕ The fact of the matter is that in this current world where we need charities, people who can afford to donate to help others need to have a
aι ĸιngoғdυcĸѕ clear understanding of how those resources are being used and who is being allowed access to the.
aι ĸιngoғdυcĸѕ them*
aι ĸιngoғdυcĸѕ Which is really the issue here.
skyfall i guess basically i was just saying there's a lot of people who still do rely on SA and
Gardevoir From the sound of it, a lot of the money you give to the SA goes to anti-gay causes and general Not Helping People anyway
skyfall people who work for SA, if their company is like this
skyfall need to leave and make
skyfall a new charity
skyfall to help those same people who rely on SA
skyfall and don
skyfall don't know/care about this maybe
aι ĸιngoғdυcĸѕ The thing is that if SA folds because no one donates to them? Other charities that ARE being donated to are going to fill those gaps.
skyfall ideally!
aι ĸιngoғdυcĸѕ If you're giving resources to charities doing the same kind of work, within the same localities, you're helping those same people.
lee sungmin. deathnotes: i still don't get what you're trying to tell us here, though
aι ĸιngoғdυcĸѕ It doesn't require a new charity though. Unless there's absolutely no one else working in those areas, which is seldom the case.
lee sungmin. "if" their company is like this? we know it is
aι ĸιngoғdυcĸѕ And if it were the case, more funds for existing organizations means they can spread to new areas and create new shelters, food banks, etc.
lee sungmin. why on earth do we have to give so much benefit of the doubt to a company that has their media relations direction saying this shit on tape
skyfall the guys a psycho
lee sungmin. and pretty much confirming that it is their if not official, clearly pretty commonly held position?
Tiger Doughnut he's repeating something in tehir company policy
lee sungmin. the guy's not a psycho
lee sungmin. that's the problem
skyfall so like, i don't get why someone would work for SA if that was right there in the policy... that's fucked up
Tiger Doughnut i'm sorry if you or someone you know has to rely on them, which is the only reason i can think you're defending this
aι ĸιngoғdυcĸѕ Yes, it's policy, and they have a long history of discriminatory practices.
aι ĸιngoғdυcĸѕ Because tons of people believe those things, or simply don't care about such issues one way or the other.
Tiger Doughnut but i personally have never supported them, because i knew they were deeply religious and i'd heard some things
skyfall my roommate was formerly homeless so
skyfall he relied on a lot of things like SA
Tiger Doughnut i would much rather give to soup kitchens or places that help without discriminating
aι ĸιngoғdυcĸѕ See, and then you have people like me who went to SA while homeless and got turned away.
skyfall i never knew they did that :-(
aι ĸιngoғdυcĸѕ But there ARE a lot of other organizations out there, and IF people donate to those organizations instead, it's ultimately better for
aι ĸιngoғdυcĸѕ everyone, because then you have the same kinds of aid, but offered freely.
skyfall i guess there are plenty of charities, it'd just be weird somehow if SA suddenly folded
Gardevoir It's great that SA helped your roommate, but he was lucky enough not to offend their sensibilities and thus be considered worthy of help.
skyfall yeah i didn't realize all the employees actively followed that policy
skyfall that's gross
aι ĸιngoғdυcĸѕ nods I don't honestly think it's ever going to fold though, because there are a lot of churches that back it.
aι ĸιngoғdυcĸѕ But as individuals and consumers (or well, donators) the only thing we have control over is our OWN contributions.
lee sungmin. deathnotes: it doesn't actually matter if all employees follow it or not, though
lee sungmin. i mean that is a weird thing to say, it's almost like a strawman? of course not every single employee of the salvation army does
lee sungmin. they're still supporting a fucked up corporation that is actively hurting disadvantaged people
Pulibear Blues wow.